Barkeepers, Chemists and Crud

I am trying to clean up a 3 1/2 gallon tank I just bought on "that site". There is an irregular encrustation of beige / light gray crud near the "waterline" of the tank. It is rather resilient stuff. Hard scrubbing with a green abrasive scrungy just barely attacks the crust. After a goodly attack on the crust, there is a fair amount yet to remove.

So I tried "Barkeeper's Friend" abrasive powder. It does help, but produces a surprisingly nasty smell as I scrub. I am wondering if there is any likelihood of the odor being toxic.

My questions are to the chemists out there. "Barkeeper's Friend" package says it contains oxalic acid. Would any of the crusts common on used deep tanks react badly with oxalic acid? Should I stop using this cleanser and use some other? Are there any good tank cleaners that don't require the use of strong acids?

If that was a fixer tank it may be sulfer and sulfides which are pretty water resistant. Have you tried a scraper?

Is your tank metal or hard rubber/plastic? Anyway we have lots of mineral deposits in our water that comes from deep wells. It leaves similar encrustations on fixtures, especially toilets. The chemical method to remove deposits from white porcelain fixtures is a product called TRR (toilet ring remover) that is available in our local hardware store. For awhile the store was unable to order this product so I did a little searching of MSDS sheets to find the composition.

A 5-10% solution of sodium bi-flouride appears to be identical to TRR. They sell a plastic handled brush with what appear to be soft cotton swabs as an applicator. There is almost no odor. You wet the swab with TRR and then rub round-and-round, wetting again as the swabbing requires. In only a few minutes the scale dissolves and the fixture is clean without scratches or damage. However, I once tried it on a hazy window and found that to be unsatisfactory! The glass was clean but now smeared (permanently). Of course you aren't supposed to use TRR on metal, but I have found that it works on sink drain fixtures too as long as you aren't concerned about some discoloration in the chrome finish and you don't leave it sitting on the metal for longer than necessary to remove the scale.

I appears that TRR will dissolve almost any kind of mineral deposit without any scraping and with only vigorous scrubbing with the soft swab and the end of the plastic handle. It probably dissolves fingers too. Using rubber gloves and avoiding contact is advised.

Oxalic acid is rather toxic and absorbed through the skin. Not that there's anything wrong with Barkeeper's Friend, I use it myself, but just be aware of the hazard.

Look for a product called "CLR" - Calcium, Lime, and Rust remover. It may do the trick.

Go to the hardware and buy some "CLR"., it will dissolve any mineral deposits. We used to have to run it through our coffee maker at least once a week in Texas due to the hard water. Soaking in distiled white vinegar works, but its much slower.

Hi! Thanks for all the information. In answer to the question of what the tank is made of, stainless steel. I will find the products mentioned and see where they take me. I think I will start trying to get "CLR". Thanks!

CLR sounds like muriatic acid, available (at least some time ago) at hardware stores. It is used by bricklayers to clean up mortar. Muriatic = hydrochloric, but may not be reagent grade. Who cares for this use? Calcium chloride is very soluble, as are most chlorides. So, if you can't find CLR, ask about muriatic acid.

Oxalic acid, while toxic, generally creates no harmful gases when used.

Fluorides can release toxic gases when combined with acids.

Chlorox and ammonia or amine based cleaners should never be mixed as the mixture will release a poisonous gas.

PE

gainer said:

CLR sounds like muriatic acid, available (at least some time ago) at hardware stores.

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CLR is much less corrosive than muriatic acid. It uses lactic acid.

See the following instead of speculating...
http://www.hescoinc.com/msds/comcl4.pdf

I would try a single edge razor held at a low angle to scrape the crud down before chemical treatment.

Hello,

Barkeeper's Friend will smell bad when used on clean stainless steel sinks, so it may not be the crud that is creating the odour. CLR, in the formulation distributed in Canada, contains glycolic and sulfamic acid. It works - rinse well.

It irks me no end that these products, and many other rather corrosive things, (Drano) are sold in the shops at child’s eye level and reach, while the same or less dangerous chemicals (in reagent grade) have either restricted shipping or purchasing due to the possible use by illicit drug labs or bad guys. Really, does one believe they would use reagent grade?

Cheers,
Clarence

CRhymer said:

CLR, in the formulation distributed in Canada, contains glycolic and sulfamic acid. It works - rinse well.

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Agreed. I was actually very surprised to see the MSDS that Kirk posted -- the formulation described in it is very unlike the CLR we buy here.

You guys get all the cool stuff up in Canada!