Ball Head or Fluid Head?

SodaAnt · Dec 5, 2023

Has anyone here used a fluid head for still photography? I do mainly landscape photography, and usually bring a digital camera along with my film cameras to do video in addition to stills. It's hard to get smooth pans with a ball head, so I'm wondering if there are any downsides with using a fluid head for general photography. I'm talking about quality fluid heads here, like a Sachtler or a Miller.

Pieter12 · Dec 5, 2023

A bit of overkill for still photography, maybe slower to position the camera. And heavier.

MattKing · Dec 5, 2023

Is your fluid head suitable for using a rectangular format camera in both vertical and horizontal orientation?

SodaAnt · Dec 5, 2023

MattKing said:
Is your fluid head suitable for using a rectangular format camera in both vertical and horizontal orientation?

No, that's one of the downsides. Since 90%+ of my stills are horizontal, I don't think it would be a bad tradeoff.

msage · Dec 5, 2023

I dislike ball heads, I used 3-way heads for years until a couple years ago. I bought the smaller Manfortto fluid head and love it! If I want to pack lite I use the Leofoto VH-30 head. It is not fluid filled but for the weight savings I don't mind. Mind that you need a self-leveling tripod or adapter.

Sirius Glass · Dec 5, 2023

msage said:
I dislike ball heads, I used 3-way heads for years until a couple years ago. I bought the smaller Manfortto fluid head and love it! If I want to pack lite I use the Leofoto VH-30 head. It is not fluid filled but for the weight savings I don't mind. Mind that you need a self-leveling tripod or adapter.

I too do not like ball heads. I had to try several 3 way heads until I found one that worked the way I wanted it to. That is a matter of taste. What is not a matter of tastes is that whether one use a 3 way head or a ball mount, the tripod must be leveled first to have the chosen head work correctly.

wiltw · Dec 5, 2023

SodaAnt said:
No, that's one of the downsides. Since 90%+ of my stills are horizontal, I don't think it would be a bad tradeoff.

If you had an Arca-Swiss compatible jaw on that fluid head, you could put the camera on an L-bracket and then clamp it onto to the fluid head in either portrait orientation or landscape orientation simply by turning the camera on top.

You could use a ballhead, and mount it to the tripod on a fluid pan base...then use the fluid pan base for consistency of panning during video recording, but resort to quickness of the ballhead's own pan base (non fluid) for stills.

btaylor · Dec 5, 2023

Sachtler or Miller, yea, that’s top of the line gear. The main downside I think would be weight as these heads are mostly designed for heavier cinema cameras, although I have been out of it for some time, they may have new designs for dslr’s, Blackmagic and the like. Also think about the tripod you’ll need as these heads. They will likely use a standard ball base like 150, 100 or 75mm and this type of tripod may increase the weight you’ll need to carry.
My son does video and stills with a Canon 5d, I got him a nice (surprisingly inexpensive!) carbon fiber tripod and fluid head combo which he uses effectively for still and video.
A simple “L” bracket should solve any portrait orientation issues.

msage · Dec 5, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I too do not like ball heads. I had to try several 3 way heads until I found one that worked the way I wanted it to. That is a matter of taste. What is not a matter of tastes is that whether one use a 3 way head or a ball mount, the tripod must be leveled first to have the chosen head work correctly.

True, that is why I use a self leveling base so the tripod doesn't have to be perfectly level. Saves time and frustration setting up the tripod.

blee1996 · Dec 5, 2023

I guess these are entirely personal preferences. I never liked any 3-way heads or fluid heads for still photography, and always used ball heads. I use heavy Arca Swiss for large format, and smaller ones for everything else. Ball heads help me get framing right very quickly, and with the help of spirit levels I can level up easily too.

hap · Dec 5, 2023

I've been seeking a fluid/or not head for use with a spotting scope. I might end up using some cameras. Any suggestions.?

SodaAnt · Dec 5, 2023

msage said:
Mind that you need a self-leveling tripod or adapter.

Most fluid heads I've looked at work with tripods with 75mm, 100mm, or 125mm bowls, which make it easy to level the head on uneven terrain.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 5, 2023

MattKing said:
Is your fluid head suitable for using a rectangular format camera in both vertical and horizontal orientation?

How are fluid heads used with Mamiya RB67 cameras with the rotating backs?

SodaAnt · Dec 5, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
How are fluid heads used with Mamiya RB67 cameras with the rotating backs?

Vertical is not an issue with the RB67 on a fluid head--just rotate the back. The fluid heads I'm looking at can support 18 lbs, so even an RB67 wouldn't be much of a load.

When I go out in the field to photograph, I usually take my RB67 (for B&W) and my GFX100 II for color stills and video. The RB67 isn't a problem because it has a rotating back and verticals are simple, even on a fluid head. The Fuji, on the other hand, doesn't have a rotating back and doing verticals would be more difficult.

My current tripod setup uses Manfrotto quick-release plates. What do fluid heads use as a quick release? Is there a standard like in still photography where the two predominant quick release systems are Manfrotto and Arca-Swiss? If it's Arca-Swiss, that would be dead easy because I could use an L-plate on the Fuji to facilitate verticals. If its something different, then I think I'm out of luck because there's probably no L-plates available for that system since video is always horizontal (except on smartphone platforms, but I don't use those).

SodaAnt · Dec 6, 2023

wiltw said:
You could use a ballhead, and mount it to the tripod on a fluid pan base...then use the fluid pan base for consistency of panning during video recording, but resort to quickness of the ballhead's own pan base (non fluid) for stills.

In video, I often pan in elevation as well as azimuth, so your suggestion only covers one of the two panning axes.

Kodachromeguy · Dec 6, 2023

msage said:
True, that is why I use a self leveling base so the tripod doesn't have to be perfectly level. Saves time and frustration setting up the tripod.

I'm not familiar with that term. What is a self leveling base?

maltfalc · Dec 6, 2023

a regular 3-way head with some extra sticky grease would be good enough for me.

Kino · Dec 6, 2023

Maybe you should explore getting a geared head? Once leveled, you can make precise pans and tilts.

SodaAnt · Dec 6, 2023

Kino said:
Maybe you should explore getting a geared head? Once leveled, you can make precise pans and tilts.

No geared head I've ever used could pan and tilt fast enough for video.

Kino · Dec 6, 2023

SodaAnt said:
No geared head I've ever used could pan and tilt fast enough for video.

Oh, misunderstood; you said still photography in your OP. I have a set of Manfroto 350 MVB sticks and a 516 fluid head for my film/video work. About the same caliber as a Miller 50, but cheaper; much cheaper.

And, there are geared heads made by Panavision, Birns and Sawyer, Moy, etc. (all pretty much modeled on the Worrell Head) that would pan and tilt fast enough for motion picture work, but I doubt you'd want to carry a 100+ lb head around for shooting.

ic-racer · Dec 6, 2023

I only have one fluid head tripod, but I have never used it for still photography.

Kilgallb · Dec 22, 2023

The manfrotto ball head is useless in cold weather, they flop around and cannot support the weight of even a small digital.

When I worked in TV ENG the satchler heads were the gold standard, you could leave them in a truck outside at -30C, they’d were stiff but usable. Most guys took them inside on really cold nights.

Steve2997 · Dec 22, 2023

SodaAnt said:
Has anyone here used a fluid head for still photography? I do mainly landscape photography, and usually bring a digital camera along with my film cameras to do video in addition to stills. It's hard to get smooth pans with a ball head, so I'm wondering if there are any downsides with using a fluid head for general photography. I'm talking about quality fluid heads here, like a Sachtler or a Miller.

I had the opposite question years ago---I was shooting motion picture film or video on my sachtler, and often wanted to get still photos on the same location. It's pretty easy to pick a tripod that matches the weight of the cameras you want to load it with, and buy extra camera plates for the quick release on the head. One detail that you might consider is that the center of gravity setting on the fluid head will likely differ between those cameras, so you would have to change the settings on the sliding plate each time you load a camera onto it, and you might also have to change the payload range on the head. That can all take just a few seconds if you've pre-marked your preferences. As Kilgallb mentions above, you'd want a true fluid head, and not a "fluid-like" head that is found in cheaper video tripods, if you work in cold weather. One advantage of using the Sachtler CF tripods is that changing height is so fast, so easy.

Having said that, I don't think I ever did this more than once. I ended up preferring to bring a Gitzo with for the still camera.

eli griggs · Dec 23, 2023

I freelanced a few jobs with a photographer from around here, and he apparently did a lot of cruses, especially in the Pacific N.W., shooting breaching whales, seals, other wildlife and fishes, as well as birds, landscapes, fishermen on boats, ect and his kit included analog 500 c/cm Hasselblads and ELMs, and I suppose, super wides.

IIRC, he and his wife made a living doing this several plus times a year and because he was on cruise ships, a lot of their shots were made on the moving boats, with the Pacific N.W. doing it own thing at the other end of the lens, so they used gyroscopes to steady their cameras.

I've never investigated these photographic magic carpets, but it sounds like, for still life, etc, it just might payoff to go see them for yourself and it could be a solution to your desire, to take the decision that best serves your work and demands.

Cheers

guangong · Dec 23, 2023

For shooting 16mm movies I use a friction headed tripod. Very stable tripod and head. Also very heavy. Given to me by the late Ken Hansen because cosmetically did not meet his standards. For Super 8 and video I find my Gitzo pan tilt head adequat. Of course, everybody has a different way of working. I have no experience with fluid heads.

Ball Head or Fluid Head?

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