Bag-Mag on a Crown Graphic

Don_ih · Oct 13, 2022

I have a bag-mag that appears to be fine (oddly enough) that I'm thinking of using on my Crown Graphic for a photo trip sometime next week. It's a great thing, since it can hold 12 sheets and I've confirmed the rangefinder is accurate in the Crown. I am concerned about how damaged the film will be shuffling it in the leather bag. So, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or advice to offer. I'll be using HP5+.

Don_ih · Oct 14, 2022

I've confirmed the leather is intact - doesn't have any pinholes.

choiliefan · Oct 14, 2022

Does your Crown have a Graflex back?
I've seen a few Pacemakers with Graflex backs but never a bag-mag for a Graphic backed camera.

Don_ih · Oct 14, 2022

choiliefan said:
Does your Crown have a Graflex back?

It does. And it is a Crown Graphic. My Pacemaker doesn't have a Graflex back.

choiliefan · Oct 14, 2022

The Crown IS a Pacemaker.

Don_ih · Oct 14, 2022

choiliefan said:
The Crown IS a Pacemaker.

Well, my Pacemaker Speed Graphic doesn't have a Graflex back.

Donald Qualls · Oct 14, 2022

Okay, better clarify here. There were three backs for this camera family: the Graflex back, the oldest and common on pre-War cameras, the Graphic back (most identifiable by the non-removable focusing panel mounted on spring leaves), and the Graflok back. Pacemaker cameras mostly had Graflok backs (they were offered after the first or second year of production), and I don't know that they were ever sold with Graflex backs

A Graflex back has only a single movable locking slide and a rib where the Graphic and Graflex backs have a groove; the film holders for it would be grooved instead of having a rib like modern standard film holders do (they're also slightly wider). It's FAR more likely your Crown has a Graflok back (two movable locking slides and a groove to accept the rib on a modern type film holder) than a Graflex back.

What this means is that the bag mag, almost certainly made for a Graflex back, is too wide to fit a Graflok and lacks the rib-and-groove interlock of either to keep the magazine from pulling out when you remove the dark slide.

Back to the original question, bag mags wouldn't have been popular if film damage was a major concern -- what do you gain loading twelve shots if you have to shoot half of them on a single subject to be reasonably sure of getting one undamaged sheet? If you can mount the mag, you would do very well to practice manipulating the septums inside the bag (pulling the front one out of the frame gate and slipping it into the back position).

Sirius Glass · Oct 14, 2022

My Pacemaker Speed Graphic has a Graflok back. I had my Graflex Model D's rotating back modified to have a Graflok back so that all the film holders and Grafmatic 45s work on it.

Don_ih · Oct 14, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Back to the original question, bag mags wouldn't have been popular if film damage was a major concern

I'm pretty sure their popularity went into the toilet when the Grafmatic came out. And chances are, that's due to film damage. For a press photographer, who needed a 4x5 for contact printing in a newspaper spread, some scratches don't really matter. You would never see them in the newspaper.

The sheet I tried ended up with a few defects in the emulsion. I'll need to try another couple to see if it's trustworthy. At least I confirmed my rangefinder is set correctly.

I'm amazed the bag is light tight after all this time.

I actually have three of these. Only one operates smoothly.

usesfilmleaders · Oct 14, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I'm pretty sure their popularity went into the toilet when the Grafmatic came out. And chances are, that's due to film damage. For a press photographer, who needed a 4x5 for contact printing in a newspaper spread, some scratches don't really matter. You would never see them in the newspaper.

The sheet I tried ended up with a few defects in the emulsion. I'll need to try another couple to see if it's trustworthy. At least I confirmed my rangefinder is set correctly.

I'm amazed the bag is light tight after all this time.

I actually have three of these. Only one operates smoothly.

If you shine the brass rod with "brasso" it will slide better.

Don_ih · Oct 14, 2022

usesfilmleaders said:
If you shine the brass rod with "brasso" it will slide better.

Thanks for the tip. The one I'm using works very well, surprisingly. It can't hurt to polish it up a bit, though.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2022

Don Heisz said:
their popularity went into the toilet when the Grafmatic came out. And chances are, that's due to film damage.

Well, let's not forget how much faster and easier it is to operate a Grafmatic. Less than two seconds to go from one frame exposed to another ready to expose; there's just no way to advance a bag mag that fast. Yes, it makes more noise -- but face it, a Speed isn't an unobtrusive camera to begin with (though a Crown or the front shutter is at least quieter than the focal plane shutter).

Still, any way you look at it, film damage seems much more likely in a bag mag than in a Grafmatic. I haven't used a bag mag, but I can't imagine it's any easier to load than a Grafmatic, either. Higher capacity seems like its only advantage -- and you can shoot six, change Grafmatics, and shoot six more in much less time than it would take to shoot twelve with the bag mag.

Don_ih · Oct 17, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Still, any way you look at it, film damage seems much more likely in a bag mag than in a Grafmatic. I haven't used a bag mag, but I can't imagine it's any easier to load than a Grafmatic, either. Higher capacity seems like its only advantage -- and you can shoot six, change Grafmatics, and shoot six more in much less time than it would take to shoot twelve with the bag mag.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Grafmatic. I was hoping to use the rangefinder on the Crown Graphic but it needs some attention. It's close but I think it's gummed up and I don't really have the desire currently to mess with it.

I shot two sheets in the bag mag as a test. There was no damage - or it was minimal.

I tried to find my RB Graflex to try it with that. You know you have too many cameras when you can't find your RB Graflex....

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2022

Don Heisz said:
You know you have too many cameras when you can't find your RB Graflex....

Isn't that thing required to display clearance or navigation lights?

Don_ih · Oct 17, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Isn't that thing required to display clearance or navigation lights?

It's so big, it seems more like a camera case than a camera. It's a complete mystery what I've done with it....

Pioneer · Oct 20, 2022

I can't recall ever having any film damage while using my bagmag but I am shooting 2x3 with one, not 4x5. Perhaps the bigger sheet of film increases the odds.

Don_ih · Oct 21, 2022

Pioneer said:
I can't recall ever having any film damage while using my bagmag but I am shooting 2x3 with one, not 4x5. Perhaps the bigger sheet of film increases the odds.

So far, I've put 6 sheets through. I've shuffled all of them to the back after shooting. Even the most awkward times, where I'm certain I put my thumb directly on the film, there doesn't seem to be any damage. I am using HP5, though - maybe scratches would be more likely with Foma (and less likely with TMAX).

@Donald Qualls -- I found the RB Graflex - it was hiding in plain view. It looks too much like an old projector box.... Anyway, the bag mag works perfectly with that. My RB is 105 years old, I think, and works perfectly. Feels like it'll fly out of your hands when the mirror flips and shutter releases, though.

Donald Qualls · Oct 21, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Feels like it'll fly out of your hands when the mirror flips and shutter releases, though.

Yeah, that mirror flip/slap is probably why the the focal plane shutter goes to 1/1000. Not like there were a lot of high-ASA films in 1915...

Bag-Mag on a Crown Graphic

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