Bad Dev or Drying Mark?

bvy · Nov 21, 2015

Trying to determine if the mark below is bad development or a very stubborn streak from drying. The first frame was the original scan. The second frame was after spot cleaning the area with a Q-tip and 99% isopropyl alcohol and re-soaking in Photo-Flo solution. The third frame is after rifixing, rewashing and, once again, Photo-Flo. The streak does stop at a small bead which showed up as a slightly raised dimple on the emulsion side. It seems to be less prominent now, but if it's truly a drying mark, I would expect it to come clean more easily. It is consistent with the way the film was hung to dry, and the frame was the first one on the reel (and the bottom frame when hung to dry).

The film is Acros 100, developed in HC-110 dilution E at 68F for 8 minutes, vinegar/water stop, Ilford Rapid Fixer. The only process anomaly I can think of is that the rinse water came out of the tap close to 85F at one point, while I was trying to keep the temperatures close to 70F.

Thanks for taking a look.

mike c · Nov 21, 2015

I have had to use distilled water with my photo flow to avoid marks like these. The tap water here has a lot of minerals which leave marks like you show. I have put the neg back threw the stop bath and then re-washed the neg to dissolve the mineral deposits.

PinkPony · Nov 22, 2015

Looks like drying marks to me, I have struggled with this too. Usually it's on the non emulsion side in which case I have found a Q-tip together with distilled water to often dissolve the residue successfully (wipe with tiger cloth or similar afterward). There are many solutions suggested in the APUG forums for not getting drying marks. I have tried a few of them and arrived at the following that works for me.

Mix a stock solution of isopropyl alcohol and wetting agent. Aim for 10ml isopropyl per 1L of final solution. Use less wetting agent than advertised (the wetting agent can leave residues as well as mineral in tap water). In my case I mix a 1+9 solution of tetenal mirasol 2000 and isopropyl (mirasol should really be mixed 1+400 but in this case it will be more like 1+1000 in the final solution).

After washing, empty the tank and fill it with distilled water. Agitate for 20 cycles and afterward add the isopropy + wetting agent stock solution (around 10ml per liter), do not agitate. Let it soak for 5 minutes. Hang the film to dry in a dust free environment (obvious perhaps), warmer is better as the film will dry faster. Do not reuse the distilled water used with the wetting agent.

RobC · Nov 22, 2015

did you use a squeegee cos it looks like a squeegee mark. Squeegee can damage the emulsion if its too tight as you run it down the film.

Check emulsion surface and back of film to see if you can see whether emulsion or back of film has been damaged.

ColColt · Nov 22, 2015

I've had that occasionally and just used film cleaner on a cotton ball...worked great.

bvy · Nov 23, 2015

Thanks everyone. I always use distilled water for everything but the stop and rinse. I don't use a sgueegee.

A PM-er suggested that the emulsion became wet and deformed at some point...

winger · Nov 23, 2015

It does look like a drying mark to me. Since you don't use distilled water for the rinse, then the last water it gets is tap? Even if you're on PWSA, they're not necessarily filtering out all the crud in our lovely water out here. My well is likely worse, but the mixed sources for yours might change occasionally and get harder or filled with something different. I don't know if your source is downstream from any of the drilling and maybe activity levels have changed?

Luis-F-S · Nov 23, 2015

bvy said:
The film is Acros 100, developed in HC-110 dilution E at 68F for 8 minutes, vinegar/water stop, Ilford Rapid Fixer. The only process anomaly I can think of is that the rinse water came out of the tap close to 85F at one point, while I was trying to keep the temperatures close to 70F.

Thanks for taking a look.

Wow, at 85F, I'm amazed the film didn't reticulate and/or slide off the acetate base. L

bvy · Nov 23, 2015

Luis-F-S said:
Wow, at 85F, I'm amazed the film didn't reticulate and/or slide off the acetate base. L

Not even close. I develop black and white in Diafine at 85F -- which is within the range of temperatures the manufacturer publishes. I do believe the emulsion is more sensitive at higher temps, though, which is why I mentioned it.

Bob Carnie · Nov 23, 2015

film will reticulate primarily when there is a huge drop in temp, much like a Chinook coming through Alberta. I have processed at elevated temps as well.. Diafine comes to mind.

Looks like photo flow on film which you have seemed to remove most but not all..

On Base side the mark comes off quite easily on emulsion side not so easily.

I always use distilled water for my last dip with a bit of photo flow, as all above mention, I would never squeegee film, ever.

bvy said:
Not even close. I develop black and white in Diafine at 85F -- which is within the range of temperatures the manufacturer publishes. I do believe the emulsion is more sensitive at higher temps, though, which is why I mentioned it.

Nige · Nov 23, 2015

I do my final rinse in de-ionised water with a drop or two of Ilford Wetting agent. Can't remember seeing a drying mark. I'm wondering if you should try doing your final wash in distilled/de-ionised water using the Ilford 'change' method. Might isolate one more variable (your water supply) from the issue. I'd also convert the stop bath to distilled. Can you try 'hanging' the film sideways so all the moisture doesn't have to drip to the bottom frame before drying/evaporating? Seen that suggested but never had the need to try it (not to mention how to go about it!)

Xmas · Nov 24, 2015

My faucet water has flecks of calcium carbonate in it from turbalance all the time but I mix up scratch chemicals in it D76, ID68, hypo, HCA without sequestering agents. I boil it first let it cool.
I do use a film squeegee and more than recommended surfant...

Cause I use a lot of Foma film I temper exactly cause it is change in pH and temperature at same time that stress tests emulsion I don't use an acid stop or acid fix...

I'd not be able to avoid drying marks without the squeegee no detectable scratches yet.

Some locals need to do final washes in deionised or distilled to avoid marks...

RobC · Nov 24, 2015

bvy said:
Thanks everyone. I always use distilled water for everything but the stop and rinse. I don't use a sgueegee.

A PM-er suggested that the emulsion became wet and deformed at some point...

I have edited left most image to accentuate the problem.
Two parallel lines running down full length of negative don't look like any kind of drying mark to me. They look like scratches on negative, usually caused by squeegee but not in your case. Suggest you look for other cause af negative scratches. Close examination of neg with loupe should be visible to you by eye.
How far down the film roll do those lines go?

Xmas · Nov 24, 2015

RobC said:
I have edited left most image to accentuate the problem.
Two parallel lines running down full length of negative don't look like any kind of drying mark to me. They look like scratches on negative, usually caused by squeegee but not in your case. Suggest you look for other cause af negative scratches. Close examination of neg with loupe should be visible to you by eye.
How far down the film roll do those lines go?

It is more normal for scratches to be due to pressure plates or jammed rollers...

bvy · Nov 24, 2015

Xmas said:
It is more normal for scratches to be due to pressure plates or jammed rollers...

As I mentioned earlier, the lines end in a raised dimple barely visible on the emulsion side. I can try to show that in a scan later today.

RobC · Nov 24, 2015

where do they start

bvy · Nov 24, 2015

They're barely visible in the margin of the adjacent frame (frame 2 -- frame 1 is shown). The parallel lines converge to a "U" (the raised area I mentioned) just below the girl's hands. But it's very faint.

Bad Dev or Drying Mark?

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