"Backwards" Nikkor conversion

There's no shortage of sites out there with how-to's, kits and services for converting old pre-ai lenses on newer Nikon bodies. (Some just say "Digital" bodies as though nothing happened between the Nikkormat and the D Series.) I'm headed in the other direction though after realizing some months ago that my efforts to stay up to date for the past dozen years or so were misguided, and I'd happily trade the Nikons I have now for what I owned then. Step one has been accomplished with the re-acquisition of what I now realize is in my books the greatest 35mm SLR ever made, the F2. The lens collection has also changed over the years of course, and while many of them will be going to make room for a new collection of MF primes, it would be sweet if my AF 50mm f/1.4 could be made to couple the F2's DP-1 finder. I could get on with stop down metering when I'm not using hand held I guess. I can't believe there's not someone out there with a way to add the little pre-ai prongs to an AF lens, but so far web searches have come up empty. Does anyone know about something I might have missed?

Well you need

micro drill Archimedes style
micro Morse bit set
micro tap set

set if ears and screws (still available NOS)

some lenses you can do in situ without breaking through ring others you will need to remove ring and clamp in micro vice.

Any Nikon repair person will do and replace lube in heliciod.

simpler getting a long nose AIs or AI or early AId SC lens.

Some of the meters work in stop down mode is another alternate. You push the follower up before mounting 'naked' lens with a DP1.

To add that in many AF lenses you'll see 2 indentations on the place where the rabbit ears would go, making it easier to convert them.
As you are on the other side of the Pond, this guy seems to be able to do such conversions: http://aiconversions.com/index.html. He calls it Type C coversion and it is US $35.

I actually spotted the indentations when I was having a look and contemplating Xmas's reply and it's pretty obvious that's what they're there for by their position relative to the f/5.6 line. I'm sure I have an old useless Vivitar teleconverter I can salvage the rabbit ears from. I hope so anyway because ordering from NOS and shipping the part in from the UK looks like it would cost me about $40 for a part the size of things I've been know to drop on the floor and lose. Now who do I know that has jeweler's tools...

tks tks
jewelers tools indeed
there were lots of the rabbit ears types if you converter has a cutaway set that would be excellent
but mount them to clear your worst case camera my FM2 has gouges
the parts shop in the UK is round the corner from my coach station so 40USD is not nice.
but any good camera repair person should do the conversion and have the micro tools.
The bayonet mounting ring screws are normally glued in
need local heat to remove.
A long nose is a nice lens

It seems a much easier solution has presented itself after a $100 bid in an online auction, which I had every expectation would be trounced once the serious buyers saw what was afoot, wound up carrying the day. The listing was for a Nikon FE with a few accessories like a strap, never-ready case and, oh yes, a 50mm f/1.4 ai. Looking around it seems like a better than average price for the lens alone, so that rear lens cap it comes with is just a sweet bonus. Assuming whichever diety oversees the fortunes of online auction participants smiles down on me once again and there are no surprises, I'll have the AF up for sale once it arrives.

-Joe

Well done
The AI has the long focus throw
w

Why bother with dis- and re-assembling and drilling and tapping if one could cement those ears in place?

The applicable word in English would be 'bodge'.

It looks bad enough with the narrow aperture ring of series E lenses, where the ear base needs to cover the aperture values.

In some cases, it might be cheaper to just buy the original non-AI lens. They are pretty cheap, as nobody want them since they won't work on digital bodies...

Rolfe Tessem said:

In some cases, it might be cheaper to just buy the original non-AI lens. They are pretty cheap, as nobody want them since they won't work on digital bodies...

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I don't think they're as out of demand as all that. If they were Nikon wouldn't still be making them.

-Joe

Rolfe Tessem said:

In some cases, it might be cheaper to just buy the original non-AI lens. They are pretty cheap, as nobody want them since they won't work on digital bodies...

Click to expand...

But this is APUG not DPUG...

eyesage said:

I don't think they're as out of demand as all that. If they were Nikon wouldn't still be making them.

-Joe

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We're talking about non-AI lenses, which Nikon hasn't made in decades and which don't work (without modification) on digital bodies. The market for the AI and AIS manual focus lenses is stronger precisely because they do work...

Rolfe Tessem said:

We're talking about non-AI lenses, which Nikon hasn't made in decades and which don't work (without modification) on digital bodies. The market for the AI and AIS manual focus lenses is stronger precisely because they do work...

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I wan't thinking in terms of non-AI lenses (though looking back this is specifically what you were referring to), but the pre-ai compatible MF lenses such as those Nikon still makes. This actually did end up being the solution as I was able to pick up an AI lens with the rabbit ear prongs that is all that is needed to index on pre-AI cameras. An actual non-AI lens, which of course aren't still made, wouldn't be a good solution for me because they don't work on even some more recent 35mm cameras that I also own.

-Joe

eyesage said:

Actually we're not talking about non-AI lenses. Nikon didn't stop putting the rabbit-ear prongs on lenses when AI was introduced, and this is all pre-AI cameras require to index. Whether or not the lens is AI doesn't matter so long as it has the ears. Nikon, to their great credit, still puts these on the MF (AIs) lenses they make to this day, allowing them to index with 50 year old bodies no differently than the original non-AI lenses.

-Joe

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Joe,

I'm aware of that. My earlier comment was simply that it might be cheaper to buy an early non-AI lens since you want it to meter with a Nikon F2 with DP1, I believe. Non AI lenses are much cheaper in the used marketplace than their equivalent AI or AIS version.

Rolfe

Rolfe Tessem said:

In some cases, it might be cheaper to just buy the original non-AI lens. They are pretty cheap, as nobody want them since they won't work on digital bodies...

Click to expand...

This is a nice option as an early lens is single coated and has a nicer signature.
But only a few of the later cameras (like FE maybe) can mount non AI lenses. Nikon assumed all their lenses would be converted to AI.
If you carry two bodies and several lenses difficult juggling needed.

Personally, I like the original Nikon F and F2 with standard non-metering prisms, so for me, the non-AI lenses are the ticket. They are also mostly metal -- plastic crept in more and more in the later lenses, even of the same design. I think all the Nikon professional SLR's except the F6 can mount non-AI lenses. Metering would be in stop down mode though.

Pre-AI lenses have been going up in value. Partly because all the nice lenses are becoming harder to find, partly because some Nikon D-series bodies will mount them, no problem (won't meter, but they won't with AI or AIS lenses either), and partly due to the micro 4/3rds craze.

With respect to epoxying a prong onto an AF lens, it actually isn't a bad idea, since the screws may strip out the plastic aperture ring. So, epoxy the prong where it's supposed to go, let it cure, then use a pindriver (hand drill essentially) with the correct bit to drill the holes into the ring. Install the Nikon self-tapping screws. FYI: the dimples aren't always in the right spots. Discovered that when I added a prong to a 75-300 zoom in 2011. So, the aperture ring had four holes added to it. Luckily, the other pair of holes were covered by the flange of the prong, so it wasn't immediately noticeable.

-J

Rolfe: No trouble, just wanted to clarify. Since I had just purchased the manual focus AI lens that resolved my original challenge I had that on the brain and missed that in your first post you were referring specifically to the older non-AI lenses. I don't disagree with you on the non-metering finders. My most used cameras these days are non-metered and I'd have happily gotten one when I got the F2, but shock of shocks they seem to be going at a significant premium. In fact the going rate for prism finders of all types for the F or F2 seem to be little less than for a camera with the same prism, which probably explains why I saw so many bodies being sold sans finder. Now that I have the metered prism though, the thought of getting less than full function from it just bugs me even though stopped down metering wouldn't be that much of a problem.

Xmas: Yes, the significant juggling was one of the things I was considering, especially as I only continue to own 35mm gear for those times when I want to go light an mobile. Maybe a Nikon F2 doesn't strike a lot of people as light, but I'm thinking relative to the RB67 system I use otherwise.

John: I think you're right about what's happening to the price of the old non-AI lenses. These old single coated optics certainly seem to have their fans, some of them among us by the sounds of things. This combined with the fact that they can only get scarcer probably accounts for the fact there didn't seem to be any savings relative to a similar AI lens unless condition was an issue. In fact I'd say a particularly clean example might go for more. In any case the majority of them can easily be AI'd if they haven't been already if usability with a more modern camera is a consideration.

Personally though, I feel drawn to the manual focus AI/AIs lenses. It's more of a feel thing than anything else. Somewhere in the smooth motion of the focus ring with that just right amount of resistance, the satisfying heft in the hand, the smart click of the aperture dial, Nikon hit a sweet spot for me. The 50mm AF is a fine bit of optic but the more I think of it's plasticy feel (and look) and whizzy-aroundy focus ring, the happier I am to be replacing it. Having equipment one loves to use is one of the joys of analog photography.

Oh, and about cementing the ears in place: had I gone the way of modding the AF lens I would have wanted it to be undo-able without too much fuss or sign it had been done in the first place save the screws filling the holes. Even if I could have stuck it down neatly (which if you knew my history with any sort of glue you'll know there's some doubt as to) I want the option of removing it without leaving a scar. I'm with Xmas here, I'd rather not have a part bodged on to an otherwise nice lens. If the plastic aperture ring can't be relied on to hold the threads in my book it's a job best left unattempted. All's well that ends well I s'pose, now it will be. (Unattempted that is.)

-Joe

John_Nikon_F said:

Install the Nikon self-tapping screws.
-J

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@John

The OEM screws I have do not look like self tappers... hope they are metric I only have metric taps.
Not all the ears are exactly same size.
My FM2n has witness gouges from earlier encounter with ears. I needed to adjust the ears on one of my lenses for additional clearance when mounting lens in hurry.

@Joe
Think the FE might be able to accept pre AI lenses without adoption or early FEs could. The follower ring on body has a button on capable cameras the follower key flips up to clear the lens

@Noel
The FE is as you said. The thing is it only allows for stop-down metering with Non-Ai lenses, which is a pity.

Ricardo Miranda said:

@Noel
The FE is as you said. The thing is it only allows for stop-down metering with Non-Ai lenses, which is a pity.

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HiRicardo

Thanks.
Id not worry no worse than a DP1 and a late lens with no rabbits ears when there is also only stop down metering.

Back to retro fitting rabbits ears I've four lenses missing ears.

E 35mm /2.5 one securing screw would be in mid air unless the ring is built up need a dentist uV glue kit or the hole in ear slotted a long way - it would look bad
E 50mm /1.8 (one early, one late) each need both holes in ear slotted may be desirable to use the early AI cast ears
50mm /1.8 pancake (non Ja) easy by comparison just drill hole and tap, your Ja probably the same.

I need a baby rat tail file for slots - watch maker or jewelers supplier

Rolfe Tessem said:

In some cases, it might be cheaper to just buy the original non-AI lens. They are pretty cheap, as nobody want them since they won't work on digital bodies...

Click to expand...

Mine do. I sometimes use my pre AI lenses on a D3200.


Steve.

Eyesage: But you said you have a DP-1. The DP-1 couples with non-AI lenses as that is what it was designed for. Unless I misunderstood, which is entirely possible .

Rolfe Tessem said:

Eyesage: But you said you have a DP-1. The DP-1 couples with non-AI lenses as that is what it was designed for. Unless I misunderstood, which is entirely possible .

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I'm not quite sure where you're coming from here Rolfe. The DP-1 was designed to couple via the lens's rabbit-ear prongs. If a lens is properly fitted out with these it will couple exactly as it was designed to regardless of whether the lens is AI or non-AI. I have owned an F2 with DP-1 previously which worked equally well with either type of lens, and I've never heard anyone suggest it should be otherwise. Since the rest of my Nikon bodies are AI a lens that will work with either is ideal for me.

-Joe