Back to APUG - and Combi-Plan T woes :)

eumenius · Aug 23, 2007

Hello friends,

finally I am back - my trip to no-Internet places is over, and I would be glad to meet nice APUG people again

The first thing that awaited me at home was a humble box with a gift of my friend, a Combiplan tank for sheet film. I can safely say that this assembly is indeed the VERY WORST example of the specialized plastic tool made abroad. The incredible crudeness of "precision molding" of every smallest part in it plainly amazed me - so the first thing I've done was a small clean-up of all remaining mold tails here and there. Just like in horrible USSR-made plastic airplane modeling kit, though there was no glue included

On a first attempt of using it like a day tank it leaked just like mad between the lid and body, so I had to find why the "leakproof lid" is so cruel with me. Of course, the outside rim of the tank was shaped really bad, and I had to remove some of plastic with a diamond nail file to make the lid fitting snugly. No leakage now!

The speed of chemistry flow in this tank is also ridiculous - I've managed to fill/pour it by a silicone rubber tubing with good cross-section and a 0.5l plastic funnel, connected to the bottom inlet, using the lid outlet only as a vent hole. When the chemistry is in, I close the tubing by a steel medical tubing clamp. The assembly looks much like the granny's enema kit, but the performance of tank is much improved now.

After all, the negatives developed in it show an excellent uniformity - the reseracher's approach of a former Soviet used to the fact that the things were usually rough on him had his fruits But really, I can't imagine any of my foreign colleagues getting the tank working just from the box

Cheers from Moscow,
Zhenya

clogz · Aug 23, 2007

Hello Zhenya,
Good to see you're back again.
I have no experience with the Combiplan tanks but I can tell you that of all the Jobo and Paterson ones for 35mm/120 format there is not a single one that does not leak.
Greetings
Hans

Roger Hicks · Aug 23, 2007

Dear Zhenya,

If you've got one of those damn' things to stop leaking, congratulations: it's a first. The only way I found to use one was:

Fill tank with dev

Load film in holder (4 sheets -- too much risk of touching otherwise)

Insert holder in filled tank

Fit lid

My chums at Ilford assure me that you can actually tip the dev out (with the lid on); open the lid in normal room light; and tip the fix in. They were unable to agree whether there was no additional development (because of the induction time for the new image) or none to speak of (time too short), but apparently it was something of a party-piece to impress visitors.

Your point about Soviet-era bodges is well taken.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 23, 2007

I once bought a Combi-Plan tank on the advice of some article (I think in Shutterbug magazine), and it leaked badly through the supposed bottom exit valve. I too had a devil of a time getting the lid to seat properly - not because there was too much leftover plastic trimmings, but because the lid was just warped, and wouldn't snap down well. It was basically a waste of close to $100 USD. Never again. I'll stick to my Jobo Expert drums from now on.

tony lockerbie · Aug 23, 2007

I have one and everytime I used it I got uneven development so I have gone back to tray developing, no more problems. The combi plan now does duty as a place to wash the negs, something it does well.
Tony

eumenius · Aug 23, 2007

To much of my surprise, the damn pisspot (may I name it so? ) stopped leaking at once after some filing But how, how such a contraption could have been born in a glamourous Sweden, eh? It feels exactly like Soviet object, made, for example, in Middle Asia somewhere

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Zhenya,

If you've got one of those damn' things to stop leaking, congratulations: it's a first.

eumenius · Aug 23, 2007

Nice to see you again, Hans My 120 tanks don't leak as much as this box'o'fun leaked before surgery

clogz said:
Hello Zhenya,
Good to see you're back again.
I have no experience with the Combiplan tanks but I can tell you that of all the Jobo and Paterson ones for 35mm/120 format there is not a single one that does not leak.
Greetings
Hans

eumenius · Aug 23, 2007

The CombiPlan lid is also poked in center from inside by film carrier handle, what does not add to the overall stability... what an engineer has developed it

The drums are indeed better, but where to get CPP for them, eh?

TheFlyingCamera said:
I once bought a Combi-Plan tank on the advice of some article (I think in Shutterbug magazine), and it leaked badly through the supposed bottom exit valve. I too had a devil of a time getting the lid to seat properly - not because there was too much leftover plastic trimmings, but because the lid was just warped, and wouldn't snap down well. It was basically a waste of close to $100 USD. Never again. I'll stick to my Jobo Expert drums from now on.

eumenius · Aug 23, 2007

I always wondered why such blunders of nature like Combi-Plan tank survive in time? That's indeed against nature's basic rules

tony lockerbie said:
I have one and everytime I used it I got uneven development so I have gone back to tray developing, no more problems. The combi plan now does duty as a place to wash the negs, something it does well.
Tony

noseoil · Aug 23, 2007

Welcome back! Have you thought of trying development tubes? We make them from drain lines (black plastic tubing) and household plumbing fittings. They work very well and do a good job on sheet film. For 4x5 film, use a 150mm length of 40mm black plastic pipe, some fittings (a cap and a screw plug) and glue. The type we use is called ABS plastic and can be found at a plumbing supply store.

Nice to hear from you again. Best, tim

r-brian · Aug 23, 2007

I personally like my Combi Tanks. Ok, I have 3 of them and line them up in a row filled with dev, stop, fix and just transfer the film holder from one to another then put the lids back on. But they work fine with a little practice.

Glad to see you back.

GeorgesGiralt · Aug 23, 2007

Zhenya,
Like you, I've enriched my vocabulary of French (pun intended) with the Combiplan. I've exchanged email with the US importer about it, and finally, it is sitting in it's box, waiting for better future.
Having a nice habit of using daylight tanks, I've bought a Jobo 2521 and the 2509 reel (often seen on Ebay) and use it like I was doing with my trusty Paterson tank with 135 or 120 film. The only drawback is that it take about 1.3 ~ 1.4 liter of chemistry (not far from the 1.2 liter of the Combiplan) but it helps making exercise when you invert the tank for agitation, so it is positive and good for health. ;-)
Hope this helps !

eddie gunks · Aug 23, 2007

eumenius said:
Just like in horrible USSR-made plastic airplane modeling kit, though there was no glue included

But really, I can't imagine any of my foreign colleagues getting the tank working just from the box

Cheers from Moscow,
Zhenya

har har har! i love russians. tough. smart. ingenuity! when i was climbing el cap once, a russian team began climbing real fast....and basically without a belay, but they had their stuff down pat. most of it looked home built....but man were they fast and fearless.

"i can not imagine their foreign colleagues climbing like them using that gear"

good work with the combi plan. i use a daylight tank similar to the yankee tank. mine i s a doran tank. works perfectly.

eddie

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 23, 2007

Pisspot or not, it is indeed difficult to fathom that this is from Hasselblad land! Even for a guy born in Sweden, like me, this is tough to comprehend... Perhaps it's manufactured by IKEA? Then it would make sense. If it doesn't fit right, just use the hammer with the word "Enforcer" written on it...

I'd stick to Jobo too if I had a choice. I didn't know you from your previous sejour here, but welcome back all the same. The more the merrier!

- Thomas

eumenius said:
To much of my surprise, the damn pisspot (may I name it so? ) stopped leaking at once after some filing But how, how such a contraption could have been born in a glamourous Sweden, eh? It feels exactly like Soviet object, made, for example, in Middle Asia somewhere

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

Hello Tim,

the tubes are perhaps a good choice, and I am sure that black ABS pipes are available in stores here - but what happens to antihalation layer, poured in some films on a backside? Do I need to wash it away when the film is already developed and fixed?

noseoil said:
Welcome back! Have you thought of trying development tubes? We make them from drain lines (black plastic tubing) and household plumbing fittings. They work very well and do a good job on sheet film. For 4x5 film, use a 150mm length of 40mm black plastic pipe, some fittings (a cap and a screw plug) and glue. The type we use is called ABS plastic and can be found at a plumbing supply store.

Nice to hear from you again. Best, tim

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

Uh, a dip-dunk line - exactly what I did have before the Combi-plan, a set of tree deep tanks (gift from Claire Senft) and Kodak SS hangers. A fine setup, but almost 2 liters of chemistry, and the need to sit in the dark... Three Combiplans are three times more fun, and almost $300 - I'd better buy myself some new lens instead

r-brian said:
I personally like my Combi Tanks. Ok, I have 3 of them and line them up in a row filled with dev, stop, fix and just transfer the film holder from one to another then put the lids back on. But they work fine with a little practice.

Glad to see you back.

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

He-he, je le comprends bien And the Jobo tanks yield evenly developed negatives without rotation they are intended for?

LF itself borders powerlifting sometimes, so it's a very healthy kind of photography, right

GeorgesGiralt said:
Zhenya,
Like you, I've enriched my vocabulary of French (pun intended) with the Combiplan. I've exchanged email with the US importer about it, and finally, it is sitting in it's box, waiting for better future.
Having a nice habit of using daylight tanks, I've bought a Jobo 2521 and the 2509 reel (often seen on Ebay) and use it like I was doing with my trusty Paterson tank with 135 or 120 film. The only drawback is that it take about 1.3 ~ 1.4 liter of chemistry (not far from the 1.2 liter of the Combiplan) but it helps making exercise when you invert the tank for agitation, so it is positive and good for health. ;-)
Hope this helps !

argus · Aug 24, 2007

eumenius said:
Uh, a dip-dunk line - ... I'd better buy myself some new lens instead

LOL!
Just do that.

I got the 2509n reel from Jobo. Besides the 2xxx tank series, it also fits 4xxx print drum series.

G

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

Eddie,

all these qualities in Russians were developed by unique situation, when in Soviet Union era we didn't have ANY real things available to people - even GDR-made stuff looked and felt like a miracle. Soviet stuff was very very poorly made, and not readily available, so people had to do things with their own hands - in single copy, yet serving fine

You should have seen all these self-built monorail LF cameras, tripods, developing tanks, etc. to make a full image of what was happening with the goods for people in the USSR. I used as a paperweight once a full copy of Linhof 5x7" double plate-film holder with ejector, COMPLETELY PRECISION-MILLED FROM INSTRUMENTAL STEEL by some guy, god knows how much time and effort did it take

Zhenya

eddie gunks said:
har har har! i love russians. tough. smart. ingenuity! when i was climbing el cap once, a russian team began climbing real fast....and basically without a belay, but they had their stuff down pat. most of it looked home built....but man were they fast and fearless.

"i can not imagine their foreign colleagues climbing like them using that gear"

good work with the combi plan. i use a daylight tank similar to the yankee tank. mine i s a doran tank. works perfectly.

eddie

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

I've got a version that some secret engineer group had managed to escape once from, say, Kharkov to Sweden, hiding in barrels from pickled herring. Once they were in Sweden, they have established the production of the Combiplans in some underground cave, using the recyclable plastic sorted and collected by nature-conscious Swedes at local garbage plant

IKEA tank... hmmm. Would have been made in China from good transparent plastic

Zhenya

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Pisspot or not, it is indeed difficult to fathom that this is from Hasselblad land! Even for a guy born in Sweden, like me, this is tough to comprehend... Perhaps it's manufactured by IKEA? Then it would make sense. If it doesn't fit right, just use the hammer with the word "Enforcer" written on it...

I'd stick to Jobo too if I had a choice. I didn't know you from your previous sejour here, but welcome back all the same. The more the merrier!

- Thomas

GeorgesGiralt · Aug 24, 2007

eumenius said:
He-he, je le comprends bien And the Jobo tanks yield evenly developed negatives without rotation they are intended for?

LF itself borders powerlifting sometimes, so it's a very healthy kind of photography, right

Zhenya,
Bear in mind the 1500 series JOBO tanks are used either in plain Jobo machine, or lift equipped Jobo machine or by hand. So as the 2500 are just a 1500 on steroid, I tried and approved such use. I get perfect negatives, the reels are not so difficult to load once you've practiced with some scrap film in full light.
Last but not least, I use 2 liter of chemistry when I do film in trays. So the 2521 with it's 1.4 liter is a bargain ;-)
If you insert a funnel in the center core, you are able to fill the tank really and amazingly quickly, so even that is wayyyyyy better than the Combiplan !
P.S. : I keep my Combiplan to process the few Slavish 9x12 plates I own and plan to use in the Ernemann LF camera from my grand father. I fear processing plates in dishes and cut my fingers on the edges of the glass.

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

Hm, that could really make sense... when I would have more money than now, I would try it

Slavich plates, as far as I know, are still made and available here, costing not really much - what kind of emulsion is poured on yours? I have met recently one Slavich representative in Moscow, and he said that the plates are still highly demanded from them. And, I think, they are cut exactly the way you describe - to sacrifice some of the photographer himself for better quality

GeorgesGiralt said:
Zhenya,
Bear in mind the 1500 series JOBO tanks are used either in plain Jobo machine, or lift equipped Jobo machine or by hand. So as the 2500 are just a 1500 on steroid, I tried and approved such use. I get perfect negatives, the reels are not so difficult to load once you've practiced with some scrap film in full light.
Last but not least, I use 2 liter of chemistry when I do film in trays. So the 2521 with it's 1.4 liter is a bargain ;-)
If you insert a funnel in the center core, you are able to fill the tank really and amazingly quickly, so even that is wayyyyyy better than the Combiplan !
P.S. : I keep my Combiplan to process the few Slavish 9x12 plates I own and plan to use in the Ernemann LF camera from my grand father. I fear processing plates in dishes and cut my fingers on the edges of the glass.

noseoil · Aug 24, 2007

Zhenya, the film is loaded (carefully) with a sheet of window screen (plastic, not the metal type) on the backing side. Basically, you cut some screen just slightly larger than the sheet film, maybe 1/2 cm longer and 1/2 cm wider, leave a small tab on one long edge to use to pull the film and screen out at the same time. I just roll the film and screen into a tube shape, then slide both into the tube and fill it with water. Once the plug is in place on top, the lights come on while I mix developer (I'm using pyrocat-hd from photographers formulary, glycol mix that lasts a long time on the shelf). A few slow rolls on the counter or in the sink will help remove the anti-halation backing, then dump the water out and add developer with lights out. Once it is sealed up again, the lights come back on.

It takes about 240ml to totally immerse the film in solution with the tubes I made. I also use a very "thin" solution of developer (1:1:150 pyrocat, or you can use 1:100 rodinal the same way). All development is done in the tubes, stop bath, fixer and wash as well. I use a solution of photo-flo in a tray to do the final rinse. Pour the developer in, seal the tube, roll gently for 1 minute and then stand the tube on end.

The method I use is called "minimal agitation" because the film is allowed to sit for three minutes each time, before doing 10 seconds of gentle agitation again. With FP4 and pyrocat, try about 23 minutes (at 20 c) of development to begin, if you decide to go in this direction. It will give very nice tonality and extremely sharp negatives. Best, tim

Roger Hicks · Aug 24, 2007

eumenius said:
Slavich plates, as far as I know, are still made and available here, costing not really much - what kind of emulsion is poured on yours?

Dear Zhenya,

It's poured on? I thought they threw it with a trowel, like the finish on some houses...

It's sad that the Russian Agfa-compatible colour IR is no longer made. That was good stuff. And all the people I met on the stand at photokina 10-15 years ago were knowledgeable PH.D.s. I only saw them at one show.

Cheers,

Roger

eumenius · Aug 24, 2007

It is poured on, really - I saw the machinery used for it in Pereslavl-Zalessky The electron photography plates, made by Slavich, are not too bad either - nothing bigger than a cockroach or matchstick in the emulsion, never! )))

The usual fate of anything good made in Russia is phazing out - including the PhDs. I am PhD in molecular biology, working in Russian Academy of Sciences head institute as a virologist, a lecturer in Biochemistry in the University - my total monthly income is slightly less $950 ($250 is a basic salary, $100 from them is paid for PhD and $20 for occupational hazards), and that with prices for everything higher than in the US! I just wait for the moment when my salary would be enough only for black bread.

The IR film is over probably because of total destruction of already weak fine chemical production in Russia... and buying everything from abroad makes film too dear in manufacture, perhaps.

Cheers,
Zhenya

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Zhenya,

It's poured on? I thought they threw it with a trowel, like the finish on some houses...

It's sad that the Russian Agfa-compatible colour IR is no longer made. That was good stuff. And all the people I met on the stand at photokina 10-15 years ago were knowledgeable PH.D.s. I only saw them at one show.

Cheers,

Roger

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