Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

guangong · Dec 20, 2022

Not BW film. When I first learned about their film making project, it was in movie making publications about their optimistic intention to produce Super-8 movie film. That was at least a decade ago. From my point of view, 35mm BW film is a diversion.

AnselMortensen · Dec 22, 2022

How's that 120 coming along?

warden · Dec 24, 2022

Harry Callahan said:
But if the curve is the way it is with P30, reducing shadow detail and blowing highlights, what would happen if you don`t use a high contrast lens …

That was my thought too after testing P30 with modern contrasts Zeiss glass. It seemed to me that the film might give vintage lenses a little needed punch. I was going to try it with the 120 size but it hasn’t arrived yet.

MattKing · Dec 26, 2022

After 4.5 years, I thought it best to update the thread title again.
Back then, I had to ask someone else to do it.

Europan · Dec 28, 2022

CinemaScope began with Eastmancolor. Nobody was thinking of using black and white in the fight against television. There are black-and-white CinemaScope films but they make for a small fraction of the entire production.

koraks · Dec 28, 2022

{Moderator note: I've split off all recent discussion on the P30 film, its curve and the use of (un)coated lenses into a separate thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ferrania-p30-curve-shape-and-un-coated-lenses.196146/ }

Agulliver · Dec 28, 2022

AnselMortensen said:
How's that 120 coming along?

Film Ferrania have made it abundantly clear that they'll look at other formats, 120 being the first, when they achieve reliable in-house production of P30 in 35mm.

I really want to see this film in 120 but I'm being realistic and heeding Film Ferrani's own words. I'd really like to see it in 8mm and super 8 cine formats but that might be a pipe dream.

Mogens · Jan 12, 2023

Have any of the kickstarter backers gotten anything? I’ve been waiting for years now and to me it’s become a bad story. Once they started producing some film, they should have fulfilled their promise. I see the challenges they’ve had, but it’s not like they haven’t had some success.

Mogens · Jan 12, 2023

Agulliver said:
Backers got what they were promised. The machinery and LRF building were saved. That is precisely what the Kickstarter funds were for. They were clear and transparent from the start. Nobody was ever promised anything more. We made a donation towards a hoped for goal. Not an order for film. Not an investment. A donation. And yes, I donated too.

That’s just not true. I did not donate. I firmly expected to receive something in return. It would have been one thing if they’d completely failed to produce something, I’ve backed a couple that have sunk like a lead balloon and I have zero hard feelings about it. I accept the risk. But they have created product. They just haven’t followed through. And they’ve been very non-transparent. At this point I just have zero respect for them as people. They entered into a something of a contract with us and they’ve handled their end very badly.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 12, 2023

I always looked at it like a donation, to save machines and hopefully start making film. I am impressed that they are still standing after all the challenges thrown their way. Their P30 is a different/difficult film to work with (one that I wouldn't recommend to a beginner). I do hope that they are able to bring to market 120 P30.

pentaxuser · Jan 12, 2023

This "donation and no return" or "contribution and return" seems to keep raising its head periodically Perhaps we need a copy of what Ferrania actually said to determine whether it was really clear that any kickstarter contribution was simply a donation? There doesn't seem to be any doubt on the part of either of the two sets of parties but one of the parties must be wrong. must it not?

pentaxuser

Michael Howard · Jan 12, 2023

As far as getting the rewards for the Kickstarter, Film Ferrania made, a few years ago, an offer of P30 Alpha rolls as fulfilment. I got 6 rolls for no cost, which fulfilled my Kickstarter donation. Additionally, I believe takers were put at the top of the list for any color slide film they make in the future, but I may be wrong about that, can't remember.
I also always looked at it as a donation. Plus, I like the P30 film, especially in older cameras. I wish them well as they try to get things ramped up.

tih · Jan 12, 2023

Mogens said:
Have any of the kickstarter backers gotten anything? I’ve been waiting for years now and to me it’s become a bad story. Once they started producing some film, they should have fulfilled their promise. I see the challenges they’ve had, but it’s not like they haven’t had some success.

I think you've forgotten some details...

The original reward was to be color reversal film. This was offered because they had the chemicals all ready, and saw an opportunity for doing an early run of that product, using their lab equipment instead of the actual production machines we all chipped in to help save. The schedule for doing that broke - there were delays that went on until those chemicals could no longer be used.

So, back in February 2017, when the first rolls of P30 were made, every backer got an email offering them P30 instead of the originally promised film. Those who decided to go for that got discount vouchers for the Ferrania web shop, if memory serves.

I chose not to take them up on that offer. I'm still rooting for the Ferrania crew, hoping that they in the future will be producing both color and b/w film in several formats - and that I'll be able to display one of their first rolls of color reversal film, in its unopened packaging, on a suitable shelf in my living room.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 12, 2023

What gets me is there are people who never even made a donation but still whinge on about it... I said it before, and I'll say it again. To all those who donated, thank you. You helped saved machines from an eminent death.

Helge · Jan 12, 2023

I’d love the slide film still. I still believe it’s possible.
They have been hit by one global catastrophe after another combined with expectable mistakes and delays.
Getting good slide and colour negative (Adox) made in Europe could be very important for the global film market.
Don’t stop rooting for them!

gone · Jan 12, 2023

I'm old school. Someone makes something, then I buy it. Not the other way 'round. To do otherwise is to conjure up P.T. Barnum's famous saying on this.

MattKing · Jan 12, 2023

momus said:
I'm old school. Someone makes something, then I buy it. Not the other way 'round. To do otherwise is to conjure up P.T. Barnum's famous saying on this.

About 30 possible cheeky responses to this immediately come to mind, but as they are all political, I'll reluctantly refrain.

abruzzi · Jan 12, 2023

Mogens said:
That’s just not true. I did not donate. I firmly expected to receive something in return. It would have been one thing if they’d completely failed to produce something, I’ve backed a couple that have sunk like a lead balloon and I have zero hard feelings about it. I accept the risk. But they have created product. They just haven’t followed through. And they’ve been very non-transparent. At this point I just have zero respect for them as people. They entered into a something of a contract with us and they’ve handled their end very badly.

The thing to understand about ALL kickstarters--you are not guaranteed the "rewards". It doesn't really matter whether Ferrania made that clear or not--that is the terms of any donation to any kickstarter project. If you're not comfortable with that, I suggest doing what I do--wait untill it is an item in a store and buy it.

cmacd123 · Jan 12, 2023

and if you did donate, you will find your name on the "Founders wall"

The Founders Wall

www.filmferrania.com

listed in the order that your donation was received.

cmacd123 · Jan 12, 2023

oh and looking back at the original kickstarter post

they did send me my "Postcards from Italy" although I can't remember where I stashed them.

if you have not heard from them, make DARN sure you have kept your contact info with them up to date.

the last plan was to issue crdits on teh web store, when the web store is Fully stocked and no longer running with quanity restrictions. We will have to cross fingers, Toes and eye that they reach that point.

fs999 · Jan 13, 2023

Here you find the Kickstarter Q&A.

Agulliver · Jan 13, 2023

Mogens said:
That’s just not true. I did not donate. I firmly expected to receive something in return. It would have been one thing if they’d completely failed to produce something, I’ve backed a couple that have sunk like a lead balloon and I have zero hard feelings about it. I accept the risk. But they have created product. They just haven’t followed through. And they’ve been very non-transparent. At this point I just have zero respect for them as people. They entered into a something of a contract with us and they’ve handled their end very badly.

Ain't their fault you didn't read what they wrote.

It was *very* clearly a donation to save machinery. which they did. And are now using. They were *very* clear about the hurdles they faced. They got abused for it. They left places like Photrio. I cannot blame them.

But honestly it doesn't matter how much people point it out....some have made their minds up and will whine instead.

relistan · Jan 13, 2023

There's no sense arguing about what was promised. You can go look at it here: https://web.archive.org/web/2015040...nia/100-more-years-of-analog-film/description

"Help FILM Ferrania build the factory of the future and the first batch of film is your reward."

"We want to be clear that backing this project is not simply pre-purchasing film before its release. We are offering rewards in the truest sense of the word."

Agulliver · Jan 13, 2023

Clearly there are some *extremely* entitled folk here who also had their cornflakes pissed in by Film Ferrania.

I'm out of this thread. Y'all know my position.

tih · Jan 13, 2023

relistan said:
There's no sense arguing about what was promised. You can go look at it here: https://web.archive.org/web/2015040...nia/100-more-years-of-analog-film/description

Yeah, they were overly optimistic at the start. Almost daring Fate to kick their butts - and she did. Still, that doesn't change the basic nature of a Kickstarter project. You do not purchase a good; you donate money to a project, and the people running that project have a moral obligation to do their honest best to reward you for doing so. As previously explained, the Ferrania folks have done, and are doing, their bit. The originally offered reward never materialized, and thus couldn't be given, so they did what the Kickstarter rules says they should do, and worked out another way to reward their supporters.

I think I'm most intrigued by the relative scale of things, here: we have this little team of enthusiasts in Italy who are investing years of effort to build a working film factory, and, little by little, succeeding - and then we have all these people whining "boo hoo, I threw a few dollars in the kitty, and I haven't gotten what I wanted out of it yet".

Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

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