Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

Agulliver said:

...There are times when I genuinely am ashamed to be a human being.

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Hmm... I completely
understand...

Agulliver said:

The "ready to go" really is not fair on Film Ferrania. They were, at one point, in a position to use the machinery and left over emulsions to make one last run of Ferraniachrome E6 film, to fulfil the kickstarter backers before the rest of the money was used to move the machines into the LRF and restart as "Film Ferrania". For various reasons all of which Dave and the team have been very open about, this couldn't happen. None of it was their doing, their fault nor was it foreseeable. They were never in a position to be "ready to go" into full, continuous production - and crucially they never claimed to be so.

As things stand five years down the road, Film Ferrania haven't actually had access to the LRF for most of that five years. THey've had unlimited access since summer 2019 and have made it very clear their next communication will be when they're able to operate continuous in-house production of B&W film in 135 and 120. The next step is said to be 127 B&W and then more research into colour films.

I see the same ill-informed whining in the analogue audio cassette world where the "last man standing", Maxell, has ended production and several smaller companies are hoping to step in. One such company had a presence on forums and in social media....and was pretty much vilified for taking time to manufacture cassette tape from scratch. The same whining I see here "Why isn't it ready? Where's MY tape? I want! I need! I deserve!"....A couple of other companies who were already making reel to reel tape secretly beavered away for two to three years and then announced their beta test cassette tape and are lauded by the very same people even though they took just as long to come up with a product.

The lesson is, sadly....don't engage with your potential customers about the process of getting into production.

There are times when I genuinely am ashamed to be a human being.

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The whole cassette tape thing is very much in the same situation, as is with vacuum audio tubes.
NAC have been coating their own tapes with old machinery thats been recommissioned, and finally Recording The Masters (formerly part of BASF) have started making cassette tapes again.
They face the exact same environmental issues as film manufacturers have, and its not the easy task it is to just simply restart old machinery.

@Nzoomed

I am fortunate enough to have early samples of the NAC and RTM cassette tapes. Sadly the NAC tape is very poor quality but in a way they are analagous to Film Ferrania. For a few years they've been the world's busiest cassette duplicating business and were running out of "new old stock" high quality cassette tape...and had to make their own. They'd never done this before so they bought the machinery to do so, which I believe is a huge set of devices some 42 feet in length and installed it in their premises. It had originally coated cassette tape but had been converted to make magnetic credit card stripes. NAC had to de-convert it and then learn how to make magnetic tape. They hired a former Ampex "expert" to assist with all aspects of cassette production, now essential to their regular duplicating business....they engaged somewhat with social media and the analogue tape community who initially were really happy....but it soon disintegrated into "WHERE'S MY TAPE?" "WAAAAAA I want"....."NAC have lied to us"....etc. All from people who have no ****ing clue how magnetic tape is made.

NAC eventually brought out a product but it's thus far poor quality. Meanwhile RTM (as you say, the remnants of the BASF magnetic tape division) who had been successfully making reel to reel tape for studios and home enthusiasts for some years....worked in secret on adapting one of their reel tape formulae for cassette tapes....producing something very similar to the old BASF Ferro Extra 1 cassettes of the 90s. It's a decent product, but of course it costs £3.50 per C60 cassette and people whine and moan "Back in 1981 I could buy something similar for a quid"....yeah...try inflation, buddy....try economy of scale....you're lucky it only costs £3.50 which is about what a TDK D from 1981 would cost now just allowing for inflation.

I'm certain that the Ferrania folk are doing all they can. They are few in number and probably not highly funded...and have had sporadic access to the LRF....so I am patient and as Dave Bias has said many times, I take the target dates as "hoped for" rather than deadlines. They've now learned the hard way that giving us too many glimpses into the work going on at the LRF either leaves people nonplussed because the work isn't easily understood by laypeople nor is it spectacular to show on a video or photo. Either that, or it leads people to be disappointed when FerraniaChrome isn't yet available in 16 ISO speeds and some take offence that it's not available in some obscure sheet size not manufactured regularly in 60 years, or 116 spools.

I don't recall anyone here disintegrating into clueless banter about Film Ferrania and saying "GIVE ME MY FILM NOW!!". I think there are simply many people who are understandably disappointed with what Film Ferrania has accomplished up to this point. Furthermore, as I have mentioned before, people aren't just throwing out criticisms from nowhere. Ferrania claimed they were staffed by film experts, that production of a batch of "Ferraniachrome" was a 100% sure thing and could be done in 6 months, etc. Yet, all it took was a 6-week holdup to clear out some asbestos in the building to start a series of events that have resulted in an ongoing 5+ year delay. Over half a decade. Ferrania made the claims and promises, so they should accept the fact that there will be backlash. I find it interesting that they planned to get a small batch of Ferraniachrome available in approximately 6 months in 4 film formats (35mm, 120, Super 8, and 16mm), when they haven't been able to get P30 available in only 35mm in the 7 months since they stated "P30 IS BACK ON TRACK".

If someone just looks at what has been posted the last 1-2 years, it's easy to see Ferrania as some kind of victim of public discontent and impatience. However, if everything from Film Ferrania is reviewed, from their first Kickstarter post to their last posts on social media, it's very apparent they make a lot of promises with very little in the way of delivery. Ferrania REALLY loves to use hype, which unfortunately doesn't work out well when the hype results in nothing. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking it would be nice to see them actually deliver something. Hopefully they will, though I'm hoping they are someday able to produce something more than just P30...

At this point, it seems that either they'll surprise us with an announcement that P30 has been in production for the last several months and that there is plenty of inventory in multiple formats... or we'll read about how the LRF was demolished by the Italian government to make way for some new project and that Ferrania simply slipped away into nothing...

"or we'll read about how the LRF was demolished by the Italian government to make way for some new project and that Ferrania simply slipped away into nothing..." This is most definitely NOT the case. My recommendation is to be patient for a bit longer. Ferrania should be communicating publicly again soon.

Patience please...

Burninfilm said:

I don't recall anyone here disintegrating into clueless banter about Film Ferrania and saying "GIVE ME MY FILM NOW!!". I think there are simply many people who are understandably disappointed with what Film Ferrania has accomplished up to this point. Furthermore, as I have mentioned before, people aren't just throwing out criticisms from nowhere. Ferrania claimed they were staffed by film experts, that production of a batch of "Ferraniachrome" was a 100% sure thing and could be done in 6 months, etc. Yet, all it took was a 6-week holdup to clear out some asbestos in the building to start a series of events that have resulted in an ongoing 5+ year delay. Over half a decade. Ferrania made the claims and promises, so they should accept the fact that there will be backlash. I find it interesting that they planned to get a small batch of Ferraniachrome available in approximately 6 months in 4 film formats (35mm, 120, Super 8, and 16mm), when they haven't been able to get P30 available in only 35mm in the 7 months since they stated "P30 IS BACK ON TRACK".

If someone just looks at what has been posted the last 1-2 years, it's easy to see Ferrania as some kind of victim of public discontent and impatience. However, if everything from Film Ferrania is reviewed, from their first Kickstarter post to their last posts on social media, it's very apparent they make a lot of promises with very little in the way of delivery. Ferrania REALLY loves to use hype, which unfortunately doesn't work out well when the hype results in nothing. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking it would be nice to see them actually deliver something. Hopefully they will, though I'm hoping they are someday able to produce something more than just P30...

At this point, it seems that either they'll surprise us with an announcement that P30 has been in production for the last several months and that there is plenty of inventory in multiple formats... or we'll read about how the LRF was demolished by the Italian government to make way for some new project and that Ferrania simply slipped away into nothing...

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+1
And BTW I've very good patience, I was a professional wedding photographer for 35 years

foc said:

a+1
And BTW I've very good patience, I was a professional wedding photographer for 35 years

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+ another 1
Burninfilm has given a very fair summary of the present position as of now, and how this has come about solely by Ferrania's attitude in recent years.

I think it is time to move this thread from "Industry News" to the trash bin.

Ko.Fe. said:

I think it is time to move this thread from "Industry News" to the trash bin.

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I must respectfully disagree. The rollout of retail P30 will begin shortly. A few shops in Italy now have some. Stay tuned! https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1988381217930963&id=298210133614755

I don't use Facebook. Is there any other information directly from Ferrania?

For non facebook folk, link to story on Kosmo photo site - looks like a 100 film box full to fight over if you make your way to Milan. I'm impressed with the quality of the packing box. No plain carboard in Italy!

https://kosmofoto.com/2019/11/film-ferrania-releases-new-version-of-p30-film/

Maybe some news on the Ferrania site when they've got some more stock. Reportedly a limited 'Italy retail shops only' release, the stock was produced in July?

I also ready the news on Kosmo Foto and indeed the packing box is impressive.
I am glad to see something happening regarding a film product on sale.
Kosmo Photo also announced that Fuji will be releasing Acros II later this month so I hope it doesn't affect P30's launch.
Best of luck to them.

The Film Ferrania facebook post does say that this was a run produced in July and has now been released for sale in Italy with worldwide sale beginning early 2020.

Note the boxes of this new batch do not say "alpha". The enlarged photo on the Kosmo site is an old photo while the pic of the box of films is the new one lifted from Facebook.

Yes hopefully a sign of production scale up in a sustainable way and they can now put the many production issues behind them. No one will remember the delays once there is a steady flow of product.

Only small quantity - Only in Italy - but a sign of Life in any case

on a whim, i went to www.filmferrania.com the former store location and see that it has been changed to say "
Opening Soon"

at least it is not "Opening in Fall 2018" like before.

cmacd123 said:

on a whim, i went to www.filmferrania.com the former store location and see that it has been changed to say "
Opening Soon"

at least it is not "Opening in Fall 2018" like before.

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That's a little progress, better than none.

So, when will a photrio member in Italy, start buying up some P30 and reselling it in the classifieds for those of use with an ocean in the way? B.S. Kumar is already providing that service for Acros II...

abruzzi said:

So, when will a photrio member in Italy, start buying up some P30 and reselling it in the classifieds for those of use with an ocean in the way? B.S. Kumar is already providing that service for Acros II...

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As the wicked witch in the Wizard Of Oz said "All in good time"
(and don't forget the bay)

abruzzi said:

So, when will a photrio member in Italy, start buying up some P30 and reselling it in the classifieds .

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sounds like the stores mentioned in Italy have only a limited quantity (sound familiar?) and so will likely limit the number sold to any individual customer.

just got my first roll from the local shop, Eur 8.50
Milan, Italy

bardamu said:

just got my first roll from the local shop, Eur 8.50
Milan, Italy
View attachment 234879

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It will be interesting to see if this product differs from the Alpha product. Congratulations on getting your roll of P30

abruzzi said:

So, when will a photrio member in Italy, start buying up some P30 and reselling it in the classifieds for those of use with an ocean in the way? B.S. Kumar is already providing that service for Acros II...

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FYI, I don't "buy up" and resell film. I take orders for Fuji film and in turn place orders with my distributors. I carry no stocks of film, and will occasionally list a few rolls that are unsold when a customer cancels an order. My prices are just slightly above those you see on Yodobashi, to take care of the miscellaneous expenses incurred while selling across borders.

Kumar

Agulliver said:

(as you say, the remnants of the BASF magnetic tape division

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Agulliver said:

so I am patient and as Dave Bias has said many times

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Of course, whenever magnetic tape is discussed, we must talk about Bias too...

drum roll