Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

cmacd123 · Jul 13, 2018

New Public Update is on the Website:

Dead Link Removed

Apparently they are getting their own access to Power, and that will allow them to configure the factory for continuous production of (some sort of) Film.

I decided to post this on a new thread as the previous one is getting a bit long as well as long in the tooth.

mshchem · Jul 13, 2018

If they can convert materials, that will be great. Clearly they can make film, slitting, and getting it into cassettes is unknown. I'm really praying that Ferrania makes it. Great history, passionate people. I'm sure the cinema folks are praying as well. Best Wishes, Mike

Diapositivo · Jul 13, 2018

Does this mean finishing will entirely be made in-house within the year? I'm beginning getting confused. All process done in-house should mean that the ship is now sailing for the Indies. Let's hope it comes back with precious film in a few months.

(Please correct the spelling of Ferrania in the title of the thread).

guangong · Jul 14, 2018

I am still eagerly waiting for reversal Super8 and 16mm movie film, which was their original impetus.

Agulliver · Jul 15, 2018

IIRC in the "Hello From Film Ferrania Part 2" thread, Dave Bias did say that when the local government finished doing works on the building that the Ferrania team would be working towards doing 135 and later 120 all in house. That means that they'll be coating the film and "converting" it into a finished product in a box on site. They had the equipment but it all needed taking out of storage and bringing back into working order. Check the thread to be sure.

I don't doubt that their first product will be P30 in 135 and later in 120. They're still working on the colour reversal film.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 17, 2018

Diapositivo said:
Does this mean finishing will entirely be made in-house within the year? I'm beginning getting confused. All process done in-house should mean that the ship is now sailing for the Indies. Let's hope it comes back with precious film in a few months.

(Please correct the spelling of Ferrania in the title of the thread).

It means that 35mm and 120 converting will be in-house by the time we re-launch. No more third-parties for these things - those folks did us no favors.
We can already coat, slit, perforate and add the signature in-house, and we've secured 90% of the components (cores, caps, backing paper, etc.) - and we have the machines, of course.
Marco has a rather lengthy "punch list" of projects that need to be done to be ready for continuous production.
We're not going to relaunch until everything is done. Thus "fall" instead of a particular date.

peter k. · Jul 17, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
We're not going to relaunch until everything is done. .

Two thumbs up !!!

Ces1um · Jul 17, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
Thus "fall" instead of a particular date.

Always best to keep it vague. Gives you room to manoeuver if you hit a hiccup. One could even say, "We meant fall of 2025" if you really get into a bind! The minute you put a date on things you better hit that target because people will not let it go. Glad to hear things are chugging along! Really enjoying p30 so far!

bsdunek · Jul 17, 2018

Having been a Manufacturing Engineer for at least half of my career, this is all completely understandable. Wishing them the best and looking forward to trying their film.

cmacd123 · Jul 17, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
It means that 35mm and 120 converting will be in-house by the time we re-launch. No more third-parties for these things - those folks did us no favors.
We can already coat, slit, perforate and add the signature in-house, and we've secured 90% of the components (cores, caps, backing paper, etc.) - and we have the machines, of course..

To be 100% fair, I would suppose that the 4 likely suspects involved with finishing Still Film, Maco, New Adox, Foma, and Harman/Ilford might be happier in providing services to some one making a colour reversal film that does not compete with their current offerings, as opposed to a speciality B&W film that falls between each of their product lines.

never the less, having an in house capability ensures the ability to produce any of the products in te pipeline without production restraints caused by someone being only willing to produce a small amount of finished good each month.

wblynch · Jul 18, 2018

I still believe film Ferrania can make money by producing 126 Instamatic cartridges. It doesn't matter who's film they load it with (Ferrania color hopefully in the future).

Ferrania was the last supplier of 126 Instamatic film, and they have said they retain the equipment necessary to load these cartridges.

Please consider it, Film Ferrania. 126 Instamatic please.

BradS · Jul 18, 2018

Fantastic news!

DaveTheWalker · Jul 18, 2018

wblynch said:
I still believe film Ferrania can make money by producing 126 Instamatic cartridges. It doesn't matter who's film they load it with (Ferrania color hopefully in the future).

Ferrania was the last supplier of 126 Instamatic film, and they have said they retain the equipment necessary to load these cartridges.

Please consider it, Film Ferrania. 126 Instamatic please.

I think the problem is that they have a very small team, and any peripheral activities not directly related to their core tasks are, unfortunately, a distraction. Although it would bring in money in the long term, in the short term it'd be taking away valuable resource from getting P30 up to full production, and ironing out the colour reversal issues.

They can't even allow volunteers to come on site to help them do it, because of the strict local labour laws.

Once P30's generating an income, I'm sure they'll consider increasing the size of the team, and may have a little extra resource available for "sidelines". Fingers crossed, anyway.

flavio81 · Jul 19, 2018

DaveTheWalker said:
I think the problem is that they have a very small team, and any peripheral activities not directly related to their core tasks are, unfortunately, a distraction. Although it would bring in money in the long term, in the short term it'd be taking away valuable resource from getting P30 up to full production, and ironing out the colour reversal issues..

Yes, I think Dave Bias already mentioned that first the team will make sure P30 can be consistently produced, and then they will turn to color.

To be honest, to make any film you need to sort out all the problems that Film Ferrania has had to sort out the last months and years:

- having electricity, water, steam, air conditioning, cleaning (and removing asbestos)
- having film conversion equipment (including creating the magical 120 backing paper, making 35mm film cartridges)
- servicing all machines and laboratory/measurement equipment to make sure they work correctly and they measure correctly
- cleaning ALL things that will hold emulsion or emulsion chemicals

...

and only afterwards, coating actual film should be comparatively easier (less time and resources involved). And they already have the slide formulas and chemicals (as far as i know); of course, one thing is to make the film using the chemicals in reserve, and another to re-engineer the film so production can be sustained continuously.

My two cents.

flavio81 · Jul 19, 2018

wblynch said:
I still believe film Ferrania can make money by producing 126 Instamatic cartridges. It doesn't matter who's film they load it with (Ferrania color hopefully in the future).

Ferrania was the last supplier of 126 Instamatic film, and they have said they retain the equipment necessary to load these cartridges.

Please consider it, Film Ferrania. 126 Instamatic please.

I think black and white film in 126 and 110 format could be an excellent niche... But it would have to be something other than P30; it ought to be a faster film (at least 100 ISO of honest-to-god speed). On the other hand, on the 110 format, a very fine grained film like P30 could give very good results... I don't know if most 110 cameras would expose it correctly, though.

cmacd123 · Jul 19, 2018

flavio81 said:
On the other hand, on the 110 format, a very fine grained film like P30 could give very good results... I don't know if most 110 cameras would expose it correctly, though.

Kodacolor II was either 80 or 100 ISO. and that was the Leap in film (and to C-41) when 110 came out. Kodacolor X the last C-22 film was 80. All the"consumer" colour films migrated to 200 in subsequent years. (Mind you colour Negative generally loves a stop of overexposure)

Still the P30 is such a long range but contrasty film, I don't suspect it would take kindly to the rendom exposure of most of the 110 and 126 cameras. New Adox also claimed at one time they had obtained the 110 cartridge moulds from the Ferrania plant before the film ferrania project started so unless they would be interested in cooperating, the italian team would have t recreate the tools. (unless they are more than one set of course.)

Agulliver · Jul 21, 2018

Kodacolor II was definitely 80ASA at first, I learned photography with that film in the 70s.

I'm not sure that 110 or 126 are on Film Ferrania's radar. They've talked about 135, 120 and 127. At least we do have some great 110 film under the Lomography name.

wblynch · Jul 21, 2018

Funny how there are always so many reasons why something can’t be done

cmacd123 · Jul 21, 2018

wblynch said:
Funny how there are always so many reasons why something can’t be done

The universal truth is that you can have anything with 2 out of three of "Good", "Cheep" and "fast". the other truth is unless you are in the weath class of the Musk and Bezos clan, you have to be able to see some sort of return - finacial or otherwise on anything you do. (the hyper rich can do things for their own amusement)

If someone in the Hyper rich class approached any photo firm and said I really want X, how much to get it in 6 months, 3 months, 2 years. it might happen. (although I am not sure even Bezos could afford to get Kodachrome for his own use)

Like any other firm, the FF folks are looking at what they can do that will result in Immediate sales. (and fit in with their master plan)

I you really want say 126, why did you not offer to invest a million or two when they were looking for investors? I would imagine that having an investor with that desire might more the 126 sub project up in the que.

wblynch · Jul 21, 2018

Seeing as how they already have all the equipment to create 126 instamatic cartridges, they could buy anybody’s unperforated 35mm film and start creating. They don’t even have to put the Film Ferrania name on it. It’s actually the easiest and fastest way they could start generating revenue. It doesn’t take an investment of millions.

But once again it is so easy to say something can’t be done than to free up the mind and imagine how it could be.

cmacd123 · Jul 21, 2018

wblynch said:
Seeing as how they already have all the equipment to create 126 instamatic cartridges, they could buy anybody’s unperforated 35mm film and start creating. They don’t even have to put the Film Ferrania name on it. It’s actually the easiest and fastest way they could start generating revenue. It doesn’t take an investment of millions.
But once again it is so easy to say something can’t be done than to free up the mind and imagine how it could be.

they have the equipment IN STORAGE, it probably needs the software rewritten. they then have to find someone willing to provide them with unperforated Pancakes. sounds like a 100% distraction from working on getting an E6 film into production.

GRHazelton · Jul 21, 2018

If they can produce 127 I'll get my beloved Komaflex S back in operating condition! And I have a full Pentax 110 SLR kit.... Bring it on, along with 35mm and 120/220!!

MattKing · Jul 22, 2018

What they really need is the ability to manufacture flexibly - appropriate to the market size product runs in sizes and formats that are in demand.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 24, 2018

wblynch said:
Please consider it, Film Ferrania. 126 Instamatic please.

It is under consideration. We generally agree that we like the idea of reintroducing 126, especially for those who are new to the medium of film.

The primary issue is that although we did save the 126 converting line, it needs a lot of work to make it usable again. We would also need to find a source for cartridges, or go back to the blueprints to make new molds and find a plastics manufacturer who can make them in relatively small volume for a reasonable price. The cost to do these two things could easily reach €300K - more if the molds prove problematic.

With this kind of cost, 126 is obviously low-priority now and will remain so for quite some time yet. Even once we can technically afford the expenditure, the question then becomes "Is it worth the money" - a question that will be very difficult to answer before we have properly established ourselves in the market.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 24, 2018

MattKing said:
What they really need is the ability to manufacture flexibly - appropriate to the market size product runs in sizes and formats that are in demand.

That is pretty much our mission statement in a nutshell.

Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

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