Baby Graphic lenses?

Chadinko · Feb 19, 2016

Been lurking here on APUG a while, but this is my first post.

I have two 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 baby Graphics that I'm just starting to use. Neither is completely what I really want but once I cleaned the lenses they seem to work beautifully. I have three lenses for them, a couple of Graphex and an Alphax, 101-103mm and not super fast but since I'm on a tripod anyway I'm ok with that.

I have three lengths of lenses for my 4x5 Graphics -- 130, 160, and a BIG Wollensak 15-inch (I think) and I want to have multiple lens choices for my babies as well.

What is available out there for longer lenses for the babies? I'm not looking to spend a whole lot of money but I don't mind a good lens for a good price; I'd just like to be able to shoot without having to be right up on top of what (or whom) I'm shooting.

shutterfinger · Feb 19, 2016

The term "Baby" was applied to all three models of 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Graphic cameras made. Look at http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html The Miniature Speed Graphic was the first 2x3 Speed Graphic and the Pacemaker Crown and Speed Graphics both have a 2x3 version. There are two requirements for a lens/shutter to work on such a camera, 1. the shutter must fit on the lens board when it is installed on the front standard of the camera and 2. the lens must focus to the desired subject distance without exceeding the bellows draw of the camera.

The shutter name is on the shutter cover plate, the lens name is on the front retainer/trim ring inside the front lens barrel.

You might get lucky and find a 127mm or 135mm in a shutter that will fit the lens board but I don't think there is anything above a 105mm that will work on a 2x3.

Dan Fromm · Feb 19, 2016

To get an idea of the sorts of lenses that can be used on 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics (Century, Crown, Pacemaker Speed) see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

The shortest lenses I'm aware of that will focus to infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic and cover 2x3 are the 58/5.6 Grandagon and the 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon for Koni-Omega and Omegaflex cameras. Both will have to be reshuttered (not inexpensive).

On the long side, the longest standard issue lens that's comfortable on 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics is the 10"/5.6 Tele-Optar/Tele-Raptar. The longest lens I'm aware of that's a comfortable fit on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto. Uncommon and expensive.

There are many lenses with focal lengths between 58 and 300 mm that will do for you. But remember that 2x3 Graphics' maximum extensions are 9" (Miniature Speed Graphic), 8.75" (Pacemaker Speed Graphic) and 7.75" (Century, Crown). The longest non-teles that make sense with them (without heroic measures as I've taken) are probably aroun 8", 8" and a bit over 6" respectively.

Old-N-Feeble · Feb 19, 2016

Dan's the man when it comes to lenses for Baby Graphics.

ChuckP · Feb 20, 2016

The 180 Tele-Arton is a nice tele lens for the 2x3. They seem to be fairly cheap nowadays compared to when I bought one.

darinwc · Feb 22, 2016

What longer lenses are available for the 2x3 graphic? Dan's the expert so far. Check his list. Practically speaking though, 150 is about the longest you want to go using a non-telephoto lens. Longer lenses will just make infinity focus, but if you want to focus on anything closer, its just too much on the little bellows. Also, there is some 'spring' to a bellows. When racked out to the max extention, it can have a backward pull that makes focusing hard and keeping focus harder unless locked down.

So the telephoto's not only give you a longer lens, but allow closer focusing. The Schneider Tele-Arton is commonly available and well respected. There is a 180mm that is perfect for the 2x3. Also a 240 and a 270, but the 270 a quite a bit larger and may not balance as well.

There is also a tele-xenar 180mm, 240mm, and 270mm.

Another option is the 8 inch or 10 inch tele-raptar. I have a 8-inch but I have pretty much shelved my century graphic for now.

A lesser-known lens is the Topcor 180mm for the horseman camera. It is also a telephoto design. But I dont know if there were linger versions.

Any of these lenses come up on ebay often and can be priced fairly inexpensively. There are not many 2x3 users compared to 4x5.
Darin

Chadinko · Feb 22, 2016

I really appreciate this information -- I'm excited to use these baby Graphics more and I'll be looking around for some of these lenses. Ebay is my friend!

darinwc, to your point, there really don't seem to be that many 2x3 users out there and that puzzles me a little; I guess there are enough 120 and 220 cameras out there that are must faster to use, like the TLRs and MF SLRs but there's something about these Graphics that are really fun and really make one think about each shot. I like that.

Sirius Glass · Feb 22, 2016

Welcome to APUG

Check out www.graflex.org/helpdesk

jtk · Jan 11, 2018

Chadinko said:
I really appreciate this information -- I'm excited to use these baby Graphics more and I'll be looking around for some of these lenses. Ebay is my friend!

darinwc, to your point, there really don't seem to be that many 2x3 users out there and that puzzles me a little; I guess there are enough 120 and 220 cameras out there that are must faster to use, like the TLRs and MF SLRs but there's something about these Graphics that are really fun and really make one think about each shot. I like that.

The "fun" part is the fun. I've shot babies for centuries, seems like, but not so much these days. Plenty of lenses are available...don't forget Xenars of various lengths.

ALSO, don't forget 47 Super Angulon...with a standard non-recessed lensboard you can drop the bed, press that lens deeply back and get infinity.,,excellent lens, tho the CHEAP f/8 version is tough to use because it's so slow it's hard to focus... I've tried unsuccessfully to fabricate a good wire frame finder for my 47/8...would make the baby a LOT more useful.

Dan Fromm · Jan 11, 2018

Ain't no recessed boards for 2x3 Graphics. With them its flat board or nothing.

jtk · Jan 11, 2018

Dan Fromm said:
Ain't no recessed boards for 2x3 Graphics. With them its flat board or nothing.

Yep. Look at a baby and we see why.

47/8 is fine with baby 23s...which unlike 4X5 cameras were designed with that lens in mind. 47/5.6 is another story.

Dan Fromm · Jan 11, 2018

jtk said:
Obviously. Look at a baby and you'll see why.

47/8 is fine with baby 23s...which unlike 4X5 cameras were designed with that lens in mind. 47/5.6 is another story.

My 47/5.6 SA works just fine on my Century. Won't make infinity on my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed.

The shortest lens that covers 2x3 also focuses to infinity on my Century. 35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon.

The shortest lens I'm aware of that will make infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed is the 1 3/4"/2.8 Elcan, but it won't cover even 6x7. 6x6 and that's it. 58/5.6 Grandagon and 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon/Omegon will both cover 2x3 and make infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed. I think they're the shortest lenses for that camera that cover 2x3, could be mistaken.

Kodachromeguy · Jan 11, 2018

Chadinko said:
I really appreciate this information -- I'm excited to use these baby Graphics more and I'll be looking around for some of these lenses. Ebay is my friend!

darinwc, to your point, there really don't seem to be that many 2x3 users out there and that puzzles me a little; I guess there are enough 120 and 220 cameras out there that are must faster to use, like the TLRs and MF SLRs but there's something about these Graphics that are really fun and really make one think about each shot. I like that.

Chad, welcome. Are you using cut film or roll film? I am glad to see you mention that you prefer to slow down and think about each shot. I try to do the same with a Hasselblad or Fuji GW690II on a tripod. The slow philosophy is such a contrast to the modern mindset (mindless set?) as demonstrated on certain photo forums whose practitioners want their digital autofocus stabilized wonders to take bursts of pictures - the spray and prey method of pseudo-photography.

jtk · Jan 11, 2018

Kodachromeguy said:
Chad, welcome. Are you using cut film or roll film? I am glad to see you mention that you prefer to slow down and think about each shot. I try to do the same with a Hasselblad or Fuji GW690II on a tripod. The slow philosophy is such a contrast to the modern mindset (mindless set?) as demonstrated on certain photo forums whose practitioners want their digital autofocus stabilized wonders to take bursts of pictures - the spray and prey method of pseudo-photography.

Nice thoughts, of course, but it's good to remember that Graphics were designed mostly to use hand-held...they are/were PRESS cameras, run and gun. Hard to remember that, right? They weren't always poor man's view cameras

Too bad the Graphic XL had that fragile focusing arrangement...those were fabulous...think 6X7 80 Planar.

Dan Fromm · Jan 11, 2018

Kodachromeguy said:
Chad, welcome. Are you using cut film or roll film? I am glad to see you mention that you prefer to slow down and think about each shot. I try to do the same with a Hasselblad or Fuji GW690II on a tripod. The slow philosophy is such a contrast to the modern mindset (mindless set?) as demonstrated on certain photo forums whose practitioners want their digital autofocus stabilized wonders to take bursts of pictures - the spray and prey method of pseudo-photography.

From Chadinko's profile page:

Chadinko was last seen: Sep 7, 2017

Dan Fromm · Jan 11, 2018

jtk said:
Too bad the Graphic XL had that fragile focusing arrangement...those were fabulous...think 6X7 80 Planar.

Charlie Barringer gave me one. I never wrote at about it 'cos I thought it covered only 6x7. I was mistaken, it does cover 2x3. My trashed (cleaned with coarse sandpaper, now its a soft focus 5/4 double Gauss type) 80/2.8 Xenotar absolutely positively doesn't cover 2x3.

jtk · Jan 12, 2018

Bought mine from a helicopter door gunner, who stole it in Vietnam. There's a large, circular plastic fitting with a "tooth" that rides in a helical groove in XL's aluminum focusing lens mounts (visualize heavy orange-juice can objects)...when mine broke (and was replaced) an actual Graflex repair guy/engineer told me it was designed to break in case the camera smashed into something...that would protect the lens/shutter...the plastic would be very easy for anybody to replace in the field except that the part became unavailable with Graphic's decline. Some brilliant guys have machined this part from something else (aluminum? bronze?) ...lots of work and expense, now lost in the mists of time.

Baby Graphic lenses?

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