B&W tips or suggestions?

robertmac_33 · Feb 13, 2011

Hey, im fairly new to the forum.

I wondered if any veterans out there could give me any tips or tricks etc when shooting in Black and White.

At the moment i only have a basic setup consisting of...
35mm SLR with 50mm lens (i do have an 28-80mm lens, but the aperture setting doesnt work at all!!)
Olympus T20 flash

I've bought 2 rolls of Ilford HP5 400 film, are there any techniques i need to bear in mind to get the most out of my shots.

Sorry if this sounds stupid at all, but i've only really used colour film before (Fuji Superia)... I'm Looking to broaden my skills

Thanks

Sirius Glass · Feb 13, 2011

First, go out an shoot film. The more the better. Become one with the camera and its features.
1) Then you can learn about opening the lens if the scene is mostly light and closing down the lens if the scene is mostly dark - yes, it sound counter intuitive.
2) You could spend time learning various forms of the Zone System and then dedicate you life to endless testing.
3) You could avoid #2 by taking a light reading of what you want middle gray to be.
Or some form of the above.

I recommend that you just shoot film and enjoy the camera, keeping things simple. Later, as you come to various situations or learn more from this website, feel free to ask questions.

Remember, the only silly questions are the ones that do not get asked. We have all been where you are, so we will understand and help.

Steve

BenP · Feb 13, 2011

Im new to it as well and i was wondering someone could explain to me how to post an article or at least ask a general question to the forum.

One really good rule for shooting black and white is the rule of thirds. Which is when you break up your picture in your head into a tic tac toe grid across your viewer and put the subjects of your picture into the boxes in the tic tac toe grid. Also dont take pictures of red stuff. The camera wont pick it up very well.

2F/2F · Feb 13, 2011

two words: incident meter

softshock · Feb 13, 2011

1/50 @ 1,5! =D

robertmac_33 · Feb 13, 2011

Thanks for the great reply Sirius and BenP, will take that on board, im trying to get some time to shoot as often as possible.

2F/2F - Is an incident meter simmilar to a light meter?

softshock - Can you explain a bit more?? sorry, told you i was a n00b lol

karthik · Feb 13, 2011

One important difference from shooting color is that scenes that look interesting in color may not be so in black and white (or the other way around, as well). We are used to judging scenes by color contrasts, whereas the BW film is only going to see shades of grey. Try to look for interplay of light and shadows - makes much more interesting BW photos.

Look for interesting textures (e.g., weathered wood, rocks).

Also look for interesting patterns (e.g., marks on the sand at a beach showing ripples due to waves - may look dull in color, but can be very nice in BW).

karthik · Feb 13, 2011

You may have already realized - several photos in your flickr album would look nice in BW (dare I say, better) : Stanecastle Keep, Broken Gate, Tree Trunk with Moss, Logs.

Two23 · Feb 13, 2011

With black & white, you are looking for textures, lines, and contrast between elements in the scene. Analyze the scene before you shoot. If the main thing that attracts you is something bright colored, shot might not work. If the main that that attracts you are the lines & shapes, b&w probably will work. Buy three filters: green, orange, blue, red. Hold on a minute. Maybe that was four filters. Anyway, buy the filters and learn what effect each has on what color. Example. Where I am, the ground is covered with white snow, and today the sky is blue. If I were to shoot b&w with a red #29 filter, the ground would stay white and the sky would turn black. That can be pretty cool.

Kent in SD

robertmac_33 · Feb 13, 2011

Thanks for the information karthik, i understand what you mean.

Thanks for taking the time to look at my album those were my first pictures taken with an SLR camera. I did wonder of some would look good in B&W. The Broken gate is one of my favourites i think i got the DOF just right

robertmac_33 · Feb 13, 2011

Cheers Two23 - as i'm new to the scene so to speak, are filters fairly generic? the lens i have just now is the Fuji x-mount 1:1.9 f 50mm. I've had a look at filters recently, but im a bot lost as to what will fit my camera :s

Thanks again

MaximusM3 · Feb 13, 2011

2F/2F said:
two words: incident meter

+1

Very easy to get hung up on zone system testing and spend time driving oneself nuts, with nothing decent to show for it...except for a bunch of tests. Don't concern yourself too much with shadow detail that you never find your unique vision/style and in turn deliver only very proper but boring images. Be daring!

chriscrawfordphoto · Feb 13, 2011

1: Learn to develop your own film

2: Learn to print your own photos in the darkroom, or if you don't want to do that, get a GOOD film scanner and learn to use it.

3: Practice. A lot. Years of practice are needed to get really good. Its worth it. Don't be stingy about film, waste a lot of it, its not really waste, its practice and if you learn from your mistakes you will get very good.

4: Learn to get perfect exposure every time, it makes a big difference in your image quality. Either use an incident meter like 2f/2f suggested or learn the zone system and use a spotmeter.

5: The true speed of a black and white film is not what is marked on the box. Different developers affect the speed of the film, and you may need to use a lower or higher speed if your light meter is not in agreement with the meter used by the manufacturer to determine speed. Test your film.

mopar_guy · Feb 14, 2011

The final result is to make Phographs

I look at black and white photography as a complete process. For some, the process can be quite involved and for others the process is very simple. Making exposures on the film is an early step in the process. Other steps are processing the film and making a print from the negatives.

You do not specify if you will be performing all of these steps yourself or if you will have a lab do some of the work. I strongly encourage you to develop your own film and make your own prints. Only through the hands on work of making a print is the process complete.

One pitfall can be an early sense of dissatisfaction that your photos aren't "good enough". Just start shooting the film and get into the darkroom and make some prints. Good luck.

Laurent · Feb 14, 2011

Many good answers here... here are my 2 cents...

I found reading about (and understanding) the Zone System can only be beneficial, even if you don't do the whole testing afterwards... Good substitutes for me were "Finely focused" from Bruce Barlow (Dead Link Removed) and/or "Way Beyond Monochrome" (a bit tougher, but you don't have to read it cover-to-cover immediately (though I'm sure you will, sooner or later).

Incident metering is the easy way to get the right* exposure, and when in doubt I've found that it's almost always better to expose too much (within reasonable limits of course) than too few (in which case you'll loose some information you cannot recover).

Keep your process as simple as you can (the good old "one film, one developer" saying can go a long way, even if you'll want to extend the range later) until you master it.

With HP5 you can't go wrong, I personally rate it at EI 250, and it gives wonderful negatives.

Steve Roberts · Feb 14, 2011

As someone else has said, the greatest satisfaction and best results (i.e. closest to what you want) are obtained by performing the whole process yourself. It's not difficult or expensive, and don't be put off by references to a need for great accuracy in temperatures, exposures, dilutions, etc.. That can come later (to the extent that you want it to). For starters, shoot a film (HP5 is an excellent choice), develop it, scan it if that's the only facility you have, but ideally learn to print the traditional way. A makeshift darkroom is easy to put together and needn't be expensive.

IMHO, don't get bogged down by incident light meters or the zone system until you've got a lot of practice under your belt, if at all. You don't say what model of Olympus you've got, but presumably it has Through-the-Lens metering, which is more than adequate for 90% of applications - you'll learn to interpret and 'tweak' the meter reading with experience. My father, a keen footballer, used to have an expression "Never mind the ball, get on with the game!" and I'd apply the same sentiments here - shoot some film, have fun, make the inevitable mistakes but learn from them. Don't get bogged down with detail (yet).

Good luck,

Steve

2F/2F · Feb 14, 2011

Actually, the incident meter suggestion was to avoid getting bogged down with the technical details like exposure compensation that is required to get the ideal exposure 90% of the time with in-camera light meters. IMNSHO, incident meters are the #1 best way to simplify everything for a beginner, while also providing much better results. They are one of the first things that should be taught to beginners, the way I see it, if not the first, before even the camera.

robertmac_33 · Feb 14, 2011

Thanks again guys. Personally I've never thought of developing my own film, as I don't know how to do it, or the space to do it. It's something I'd like to do at some point, but just now I'll be taking the film to my local photo processing store.

Out of interest though, how difficult would it be to develop my own film? I'd imagine that developing the film would be a simple enough process, but what is the process for printing a photograph?

Once again, thanks for your input, its really appreciated

Dave in Kansas · Feb 14, 2011

I agree with 2F/2F about the incident light meters, but your in-camera meter will get you close on many scenes. Incident is better, however.

As far as developing your own film, if you have a kitchen sink, you can develop your own film. Just use a small film developing tank (Patterson or stainless steel), then get some developer, stop bath and fixer and jugs to store it in and you're nearly done. You need a thermometer and then either a film changing bag for loading the film into the developing tank in daylight, or a dark closet or dark bathroom. I develop my film in the kitchen sink. When I'm done, the chemicals get poured back into storage jugs and taken back to the basement for storage.

My darkroom is in the basement but I don't have running water down there so that is why I use the kitchen sink.

Dave

karthik · Feb 14, 2011

robertmac_33 said:
Out of interest though, how difficult would it be to develop my own film? I'd imagine that developing the film would be a simple enough process, but what is the process for printing a photograph?

See http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=31 (in particular the "Processing your first B&W film" PDF) and http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=34

IloveTLRs · Feb 16, 2011

On the same site, read Taking pictures in black and white and Thinking in black and white. Lots of good information. I was told once that black and white photographers "see light".

removed account4 · Feb 16, 2011

photograph things that interest you ..
explore
and enjoy yourself ...
after you follow all the rules
break them all ..

don't forget to have fun
john

Christopher Walrath · Feb 16, 2011

I got started devekoping my own film for under $200 and it is easy. Again, just takes practice. And it can be done in a downstairs half bath or a closet. Any space that can be made light tight.

2F/2F · Feb 16, 2011

Christopher Walrath said:
I got started devekoping my own film for under $200 and it is easy. Again, just takes practice. And it can be done in a downstairs half bath or a closet. Any space that can be made light tight.

...or even an area that is not quite light tight enough for film, if you use a changing tent. (Yes, tent, not bag. I have a bag because I got it for free, but it drives me crazy, especially when doing slightly more complicated things like trimming off a roll midway through or loading sheet film holders.) I have never really made any spot in my home to be light tight enough for film. Paper, yes, but not film. When processing at home, I always load in my bag (with the lights off).

You don't need a great darkroom (or even a good one) to do great work!

robertmac_33 · Feb 18, 2011

Hey, thanks for all your tips and suggestions. Will definitely look into developing my own film at some point.

In the mean time i bought some filters. Got a job lot of 6 filters for.... 99p

All look new, they are as follows

Hoya Filters
-Yellow (K2)
-CS
-Skylight
-UV (0)
-PL-CIR

Vivitar
-Orange (o2)

Looking forward to trying them out, and see what results they produce

B&W tips or suggestions?

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