B&W, Rocks & Roots, exposure and separation questions

KenS · Jun 23, 2006

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
How would you dilute ferricyanide to a wroking solution, say 1/2 gallon for an 11x14 tray? Or are you suggesting going at selected areas with a swab or something?

Bruce,

I is a trick I was shown about 20 years ago but have ever only had to apply the technique once... on an scanning electron micrograph that could not be re-done after the stub was dropped and damaged... but a print from a less than good was needed for submission to a journal. I had just about forgotten all about the method until I had a chance to browse through a friend's copy of Barry Thornton's "Edge of Darkness" and saw what he had done to "greatly" improve a photograph that needed some "assistance".... Of course, I then went and bought a copy for myself.

I would leave the swabs in the packet... leave them for when you need only "local bleaching on an untoned print, so go for full tray immersion since the Ag selenide in the lower tones will not respond to bleaching. I think an half gallon in an 11x14 tray might be a wee bit generous and be subject to slopping over with aggressive agitation. I would be tempted to go for (about) a 33% strength farmer's such that it does not "go" too fast... you want to pull it out a wee bit before the acceptable tone is reached.

Ken

jp80874 · Jun 23, 2006

KenS said:
John,

Tone the print (but not to completion) with a selenium toner, then... after washing, treat the print with a solution of ferricyanide to remove some of the density from the "higher tone" surfaces where "all" the silver has not been changed to Ag selenide.

Ken

Ken,

Thank you. I would like to try that but I am allergic to ammonia, takes me right to the floor.

Thanks,

John P

jp80874 · Jun 28, 2006

I started photographing the Rocks & Roots project many of you have helped me better understand. Loaded up the baby jogger with the 8x10 stuff and hiked up into the cliffs. Last evening as the first negatives came out of the Jobo I learned that it is harder than I knew to focus when it is so dark you need a six minute T Max 400 exposure @ f45. I also learned that my 8x10 camera has a lot more rise than my 300mm APO Symmar even though it has a 425mm image circle. It really was quite dark on Dave's very bright ground glass. Anyone with suggestions on how to see focus and vigneting in that little light will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John Powers

Les McLean · Jun 28, 2006

John, take a piece of white card and lay it on the area where you have selected to focus. If it is still too dark I'm back to "the flashlight as part of the kit required to photograph in dark places", light the white card with the flashlight. Now how you do that while under the dark cloth is another question

noseoil · Jun 28, 2006

Try the old "mini light" focusing trick. Use two mini-mag lights set in the image at different places. Focus on the lights until they are correct, then remove the lights, stop down and shoot. If you are shooting in light this dark, a film which can be expanded fully will be a good choice. Still think Efke 25 is a decent choice, but I would use 4x5 to start out on this one, as trial and error will be what is needed. Sounds like a few acres of film may be expended to get the image you want. Best of luck, tim

waynecrider · Jun 28, 2006

jp80874 said:
I started photographing the Rocks & Roots project many of you have helped me better understand. Loaded up the baby jogger with the 8x10 stuff and hiked up into the cliffs. Last evening as the first negatives came out of the Jobo I learned that it is harder than I knew to focus when it is so dark you need a six minute T Max 400 exposure @ f45. I also learned that my 8x10 camera has a lot more rise than my 300mm APO Symmar even though it has a 425mm image circle. It really was quite dark on Dave's very bright ground glass. Anyone with suggestions on how to see focus and vigneting in that little light will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John Powers

How can you work without camera headlights?

jp80874 · Jun 28, 2006

Les McLean said:
John, take a piece of white card and lay it on the area where you have selected to focus. If it is still too dark I'm back to "the flashlight as part of the kit required to photograph in dark places", light the white card with the flashlight. Now how you do that while under the dark cloth is another question

Les,
This could work. I'll use your portrait with a little side light. You don't mind if I paint on a bulls eye do you, just for focusing work? Lock and load one 30 cal. shell.

John

jp80874 · Jun 28, 2006

noseoil said:
Try the old "mini light" focusing trick. Use two mini-mag lights set in the image at different places. Focus on the lights until they are correct, then remove the lights, stop down and shoot. If you are shooting in light this dark, a film which can be expanded fully will be a good choice. Still think Efke 25 is a decent choice, but I would use 4x5 to start out on this one, as trial and error will be what is needed. Sounds like a few acres of film may be expended to get the image you want. Best of luck, tim

I like this is even better than the bulls eye. That should give me the depth of field that I think I need. I thought I would start out testing with film on hand which in 8x10 is T Max 400. It also cuts the reciprocity problem of 30-45 minute exposures. The mosquitoes are really bad. They only move over for the deer flies that are worse. I tried my Labrador as distraction bait, but there were enough mosquitoes to bite both of us.

If I don't get the separation I need I will order in some Efke 25 4x5 as you suggest and just walk back to the car while it is working. I was quite surprised with the first 8x10 T Max negatives developed in Rollo Pyro. Disregarding the vignetting which should be cured using the 12 inch Dagor with 561mm image circle, the separation was surprisingly good. Thanks all for the suggestions. You all are really helping and it is appreciated.

John Powers

jp80874 · Jun 28, 2006

waynecrider said:
How can you work without camera headlights?

Thanks all for the suggestions. You all are really helping and it is appreciated.QUOTE said:
Well some of you are really helping. Wayne, I don't use headlights because I'm trying to hide from the mosquitoes. If I light the target (ooops) subject, maybe they will go there.

John P.

ChuckP · Jun 29, 2006

Don't forget that with long exposures you will be getting a nice contrast kick from the film reciprocity. Another film to try is Tri-X. It's steep highlight curve can give some snap to a flat scene. I've photographed very often in the same area and over at Nelson Ledges SP during visits to Akron. They are great places with magical light. I think that some depends on if you want a more literal image or a more abstract high contrast one. Dark softness can be nice. If you make it too hot it can lose some of the feeling and be more about line and form. Another thing is that many of those tree roots are really quite bright against the rocks even in flat light. You really have to look for a scene with some of that contrast interest but in my opinion keep the scene from getting too hot looking. I never liked these things in the sun.
Chuck Pere

jp80874 · Jun 30, 2006

noseoil said:
Try the old "mini light" focusing trick. Use two mini-mag lights set in the image at different places. Focus on the lights until they are correct, then remove the lights, stop down and shoot. Best of luck, tim

Tim,
I want to thank you again for this idea. Lee L and his son David joined me today. We had a couple of two D cell flashlights from around the house. These worked perfectly for establishing the range of acceptable focus including some forward tilt and front swing, neither of which I could have seen in that light. To give a clue to the light level we had six and twelve minute exposures at f45.7 using T Max 400 set at 200 with reciprocity at three times meter reading. Thank you very much. Your idea made it possible. I hope to develop the 8x10 sheets tomorrow and see how it worked out. Lee said he knew where I could get much smaller but equally effective lights than what we borrowed from home.

John Powers

noseoil · Jul 1, 2006

John, glad it worked out well for your shot. Two of the mini-mag types wouldn't weigh too much if they are the small ones. I keep a small AAA type (cheap plastic) at work for plugging and unplugging wires at the back of my computer. The small beam is still enough to see a sharp focus if it is that dark there. Want to see a print in the gallery, once you have your technique perfected and find that shot. Sounds like an interesting project. Get some "deet" for that dog! tim

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B&W, Rocks & Roots, exposure and separation questions

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