B&W reversal procedure

SalveSlog said:

You mean the 120 size? I think the 35mm is available.

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Foma R100 is a cine film. Checked their website they list only the 16mm and super-8 formats. Really a shame that the 35mm is no longer available.

We can get it for stills here in Europe.

SalveSlog said:

So I finally got the chemicals and reversal developed my first film. I followed the Ilford recipe as close as I could, using Delta 100, 35mm.

Well, I never hoped for results like this on my very first attemt!
Sorry I don't have a scanner.
I see none of the problems we may read about on the dr5 website. So why do a beginner like little me get better results with the Ilford recipe than David Wood got with the same recipe? (He made me not try this for a long time. Grrr!)

Good God, I have to load my Zeiss Ercona 6x9!

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THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This kind of information is really useful!

Gerald C Koch said:

All B&W films are not suitable for reversal. You really need a colorless film base for slides. At one time Foma made a reversal film that was ideal for slides but they discontinued the 35mm size.

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The examples posted on the dr5 website (nonwithstanding their opinion regarding the Ilford process) show that you can do successful reversal process on many common B/W films like TMax 100, FP4, Pan F, and others.

flavio81 said:

The examples posted on the dr5 website (nonwithstanding their opinion regarding the Ilford process) show that you can do successful reversal process on many common B/W films like TMax 100, FP4, Pan F, and others.

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My concern was about the color cast that some film bases may give the slides. Nothing more. Some years ago I reversed some Plus-X and the slides had an unpleasant greenish-blue cast from the film base. You are reading more into my post than is there.

Hi all, I have reversal processed many film stocks, maybe people think not a good idea, or maybe too much colour cast, but here is a couple of examples of Kodak Vision 3 cine colour neg film stock.

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and

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Yes there is a colour cast, but when projected no one in the audience saw the colour cast as I was not projecting images from different film stocks. The same goes for when I reversal process the same film stock in 16mm as B&W reversal and obviously project it. No one comments. See the link below, (it is a big file 23Mb sorry if you chose to download)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27718112/2012-11-05 12.03.08.mov

my son aged 5 and 3/4 directed this stop motion. All I did was move the camera as I was frightened he'd wreck the camera. But the film stock was 7219. The auto white cal on the iphone corrected the colour, but I have to say you struggle to recognise the orange colour mask yourself when viewing on the screen.

In summary if you look at the images on a light table you'll see the colour cast of the substraight, but if projected and you use one film stock, the audience is not likely to detect the colour cast of the the substraight.

Gerald C Koch said:

My concern was about the color cast that some film bases may give the slides. Nothing more. Some years ago I reversed some Plus-X and the slides had an unpleasant greenish-blue cast from the film base. You are reading more into my post than is there.

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My bad, you're right.

i have not had good results with the newer T-grain films. But with the old traditional grained films, the results using a modified ilford process are really good. Rollei retro 80s is by far the best film I have used. The base is crystal clear and the film has amazing resolution to go with it. and the fact that it is a naturally high contrast film works to its advantage in reversal processing.

Now I'll try the Ilford recipe on Delta 100, 120-film. And I'd love to have the "theory" clear before I go at it.

One interesting question is:

Ilford recommend the amount of hypo for one roll of 35mm is 3,6 grams: 12g/L, but only 0,3 used in the tank.
A question arise whether the amount of hypo should be kept constant to the volume of the developer (0,5 in the tank for 120 would ask for 6g hypo), or to the film area in which case 120-film would also need 3,6g hypo?

Asked in another way:
Is it the amount of hypo presented to the film in the developer that is important? Or is it the concentration?
As the agitation for reversal processing should be pretty intense, my own guess would be that the relation 'film area'/'mass of hypo' is the key. But I'm no chemist.

No answers. OK.

I tried Delta 100 medium format.
I think I was right with the hypo (~3,6 in 500ml developer).
The blacks are very good. But highlights are blown. With the same logic as with the hypo, I will try with less 1st development:
There is more developer (in a Paterson tank) for 1 120-film than there is for 1 35mm/36frames, so with the heavy agitation, using the same development time may be too much.

When weather gets better for shooting, I'll try another roll. Maybe 9minutes in the first developer instead of 12?

I don't think it is stated in the Ilford recipe that it is intended for 1 roll 35mm with 36 frames. One would probably take that for granted.

For anyone interested:
I seem to get somehow equal result with 1 roll 120 film (Delta 100) by reducing the first development time to 9 minutes and the amount of hypo (in 500ml developer) to 3 grams.

I also reduced the second development time with one minute, but I don't think that should make much difference.

I did not dare removing the film from the roll. I made the second exposure by holding the tank with the spool topped with water (20°C, too!), a handwidth under a standard household lightbulb for 2 minutes each side. Wiggling a little. I'm shure it will give more equal fogging to take it off the spool, so maybe in the future ...

For anyone who want to try b&w reversal I would recommend following the Ilford recipe closely. This was only my third reversal development, and I love the result. Don't believe, like I did for a long time, the bad things someone has written about this recipe on the web!

Here is the recipe that I have very good slides with for T-Max 100 and Delta 100:


Metol 2g/L
Sodium Sulphite 36g/L
Hydroquinone 5g/L
Sodium Carbonate (anh) 50g/L
Potassium Bromide 4g/L
Sodium Thiosulphate (Pentahydrate crystals) 16g/L


8m 30s processing time at 24 degrees celsius for T-Max @ 100, Delta 100 looks good at this time too, though someone I did it for prefers it at 160 at this time.

7m 15s, 24 degrees celsius for T-Max 100 @ 50

6m, 29 degrees celsius for T-Max 100 @ 200



I also use 2 re-developers, first is sodium carbonate + catechol only, at quite a warm temp, followed by any regular re-developer such as print developer or Rodinal etc.

The image stain raises dMax for Delta 100 from about 2.2 to 2.9 to 3.2.

SalveSlog said:

I seem to get somehow equal result with 1 roll 120 film (Delta 100) by reducing the first development time to 9 minutes

I did not dare removing the film from the roll. I made the second exposure by holding the tank with the spool topped with water (20°C, too!), a handwidth under a standard household lightbulb for 2 minutes each side. Wiggling a little. I'm shure it will give more equal fogging to take it off the spool, so maybe in the future ...

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Bravo!

You can build yourself a light box upon which you place a transparent plastic tray holding water and reel. Attach a second bulb to shine on the film from above.



Two minutes is fine. Don’t become tired from moving the reel in all directions.