B&W reversal chems

destroya · May 28, 2013

its time to order more film. ive never shot plus-x before and wanted to try it. i read that a lot of people who have used the orwo UN 54 film say it very similar. on their web site they state that it can also be processed as a reversal film. I love color slides and have never shot B&W slides, so i thought i would do a little digging.

but when i search for reversal chems i cant seem to find any (pre-made) except for a photo formula designed for tmax. so i have had a hard time finding a recipe to make my own. i'm sure if i had a copy of the darkroom cookbook it would be in there. i was hoping to find something that could be done as it would be cool to have a film that could be developed both ways.

any ideas?

thanks
john

R.Gould · May 29, 2013

Foma do a reversal kit, at least they do over here, and they also do a reversal black ands white film

pdeeh · May 29, 2013

Foma do a kit which one of the larger US photo distributors may carry.

Otherwise it's not too hard to find a "how to" online. googling for "B&W reversal development" got me all the results I needed to get started.

Ilford's site carries a PDF about reversal, and though it specifically names their own developers in it, I followed it to the letter just the other night, changing only the developers for what I had to hand and got excellent results (for a first try) using Lucky film.

Oxleyroad · May 29, 2013

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) from another thread is a method and the chemical formulation.

johnielvis · May 29, 2013

don't try to reverse plus-x--you'll be disappointed unless you have very special circumstances you must photograph. It does have an extremely high dynamic range, but it looks flat for normal scenes.

there are many many threads on reversal going on. look at the one on "brown stain"--a dude just gave his recipe for reversing fp4. Note that this formula uses hypo in the developer which is something that I avoid, since it reduces quality at the expense of shorter processing times and increased apparent film speed. The best way to start us using a very very strong high contrast developer--d-19 is the go-to recommendation in this case. For bleach, the best, by far, is a dichromate (potassium, ammonium, sodium, whateverum)--these solutions are very stable whereas the permanganate bleaches erode while you're mixing them. Note that permanganate is every bit as dangerous as dichromate, so don't be afraid of it. Just take proper precautions, educate yourself on how to handle chemicals, and you'll be just fine.

spatz · May 29, 2013

i have been playing around with reversing pan-f using ilford bromophen and a permanganate/sodium bisulfate (pH decreaser from pool stores). i once tried reversing pan-f and upon re-exposure under an enlarger following the clearing bath the emulsion kind of slid off the base and floated nonchalantly in the tray of water i had the film in. johnielvis, is this a product of the unstable permanganate bleach i was using or that i was using a paper developer instead of a high-contrast film developer, which d-19 is?

as for the OP, my junior experiments indicate that you can only go so far with the 'right' recipe for a given film - you simply have to experiment, experiment and experiment some more. as a starting point the guy in this thread from some time ago (there was a url link here which no longer exists) is getting some good results based on scans of his film.

mr.datsun · May 29, 2013

destroya said:
its time to order more film. ive never shot plus-x before and wanted to try it. i read that a lot of people who have used the orwo UN 54 film say it very similar. on their web site they state that it can also be processed as a reversal film. I love color slides and have never shot B&W slides, so i thought i would do a little digging.

but when i search for reversal chems i cant seem to find any (pre-made) except for a photo formula designed for tmax. so i have had a hard time finding a recipe to make my own. i'm sure if i had a copy of the darkroom cookbook it would be in there. i was hoping to find something that could be done as it would be cool to have a film that could be developed both ways.

any ideas?

thanks
john

If you are thinking about a kit and decide to use the Foma, then probably the best thing to start with is Foma's own R100 reversal film. I've never used both together but I presume the kit and the film are made for each other. Otherwise you will need to experiment. For some people the experimental approach becomes a long journey with a delayed arrival. Others (apparently) hit it right very quickly. Steve Roberts (in johnielevis' thread link) has a process that successfully works with the film he used (FP4). That must be a good place to start if you do go the long way.

Potassium Permanganate vs. Dichromate isn't much of an issue at this stage in your quest, imo. People have used both with success.

Gerald C Koch · May 29, 2013

Read the following article from Ilford. It will answer your questions http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=90

davedm · May 29, 2013

Chemical exposure with SnCl2 (Stannous Chloride / Tin(II) Chloride) is easy to do either with second developer or as a separate bath.See Jens Osbahr's pdf at: Dead Link Removed

This takes care of emulsion peel off problems as well as repeatability issues of re-exposure but somehow most people tend to lean towards light exposure. Try it if you can get hands on SnCl2.

Gerald C Koch · May 29, 2013

Having processed many rolls of Ektachrome using a fogging exposure I have never experienced any problems. No emulsion separation, no repeatability problems, no problems at all.

For B&W slides the use of a a fogging developer such as sodium sulfide or thiocarbamide obviates the need for re-exposure. Slides made this way have a pleasant old-time sepia look.

destroya · Jun 17, 2013

found this thread and it makes me think that i could pull it off. i especially like the "iron off" idea which is the 2nd developer that performs fogging, developing and fix, all in one.

anyone tried something similar?

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1924424@N22/discuss/72157629499928508/

dr5chrome · Jun 29, 2013

B&W slide

www.dr5.com

destroya said:
its time to order more film. ive never shot plus-x before and wanted to try it. i read that a lot of people who have used the orwo UN 54 film say it very similar. on their web site they state that it can also be processed as a reversal film. I love color slides and have never shot B&W slides, so i thought i would do a little digging.

but when i search for reversal chems i cant seem to find any (pre-made) except for a photo formula designed for tmax. so i have had a hard time finding a recipe to make my own. i'm sure if i had a copy of the darkroom cookbook it would be in there. i was hoping to find something that could be done as it would be cool to have a film that could be developed both ways.

any ideas?

thanks
john

dr5chrome · Jun 29, 2013

PLUS-X

PLUS-x 35mm is a great film for B&W-sildes. http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/px.html

FYI

johnielvis said:
don't try to reverse plus-x--you'll be disappointed unless you have very special circumstances you must photograph. It does have an extremely high dynamic range, but it looks flat for normal scenes.

there are many many threads on reversal going on. look at the one on "brown stain"--a dude just gave his recipe for reversing fp4. Note that this formula uses hypo in the developer which is something that I avoid, since it reduces quality at the expense of shorter processing times and increased apparent film speed. The best way to start us using a very very strong high contrast developer--d-19 is the go-to recommendation in this case. For bleach, the best, by far, is a dichromate (potassium, ammonium, sodium, whateverum)--these solutions are very stable whereas the permanganate bleaches erode while you're mixing them. Note that permanganate is every bit as dangerous as dichromate, so don't be afraid of it. Just take proper precautions, educate yourself on how to handle chemicals, and you'll be just fine.

johnielvis · Jun 30, 2013

dr5chrome said:
PLUS-x 35mm is a great film for B&W-sildes. http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/px.html

FYI

Whoa there--I didn't say it wouldn't work for slides, only that there are much much much better choices out there for my tastes.

it does work for some things, but it's lacking in the contrast bang that people like me like--it looks flat and muddy to me because it has such a huge range--which you agree with apparently from the link

cmacd123 · Jun 30, 2013

If you look carefully on teh Kodak Motion picture film site, there are the formulas for Plus-X _REVERSAL_ and Tri-X _REVERSAL_ which were and are respectively only sold in 16mm. Those formulas are what Movie labs use successfully to reverse ORWO UN54.

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uplo..._en_motion_support_processing_h2415_h2415.pdf

The Kodak Movie formulas Don't work reliably with Foma R-100. The Kodak process is more environmentally friendly, and so less effective at bleaching.

johnielvis · Jul 1, 2013

so plus x reversal is the same as plus x--I didn't know that.

cmacd123 · Jul 2, 2013

johnielvis said:
so plus x reversal is the same as plus x--I didn't know that.

NO it is (was) not. Plus X reversal , Plus x negative and Plus x still film are supposed to be all different, although obviously related.

dr5chrome · Jul 3, 2013

..sorry, not correct. These emulsions are the same.

cmacd123 said:
NO it is (was) not. Plus X reversal , Plus x negative and Plus x still film are supposed to be all different, although obviously related.

clayne · Jul 3, 2013

I don't know about the reversal emulsion but the cine (5231) and still are pragmatically the same.

B&W reversal chems

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