B&W Hybrid Workflow - recommendations and suggestions

Hi all,

I guess I should apologies for the length of this posting up front - stick with me and I'll try not to ramble too much.

I've had a big upheaval recently which means I need to change the way I work with B&W. My previous workflow consisted of:

Bronica SQ >> Ilford HP5 >> Darkroom >> Multigrade Print >> Scan >> Photoshop >> Archive/web/etc

Due to a house & country move with my job, I've lost the darkroom, unsucessfully switching to:

Nikon FM3 >> Ilford Delta >> Film Develop >> Minolta Scan Dual 4 >> Photoshop >> HP Printer.

The first problem I've got is that of the scanner. The Scan Dual 4 is giving particually bad results - massive noise problems. Having tried almost every solution (including stipping and cleaning the optics), I'm now at the point where I'm prepared to splash out on a new scanner. I would be interested in knowing peoples opinions on the various scanners available: certainly considering the Epson V700 because, if nothing else, having a bit of glass in the way of the scan head may actually help diffuse the grain somewhat. Also looking at the Nikon scan offerings, but they do seem to be typically-Nikon overpriced.

The second problem is finding some software which happily works with b&w. I've never been over the moon with Photoshop (elements 4) for B&W work and therefore am not convinced to move to CS3. Suggestions anyone?

The third issue is any suggestions/recommendations on actually printing b&w images - any suggestions on printers which don't give colour casts?


I know, so far I've raised three quite seperate points. However, I'm more interested in knowing peoples recommendations on the entire workflow. Finding individual components is one thing, but finding a suitable workflow which doesn't irrate the hell out of you is another indeed!!

Comments, suggestions and recommendations welcome!

Mat.

memaher said:

Hi all,
The first problem I've got is that of the scanner.

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For a dedicated film scanner a Nikon film scanner will probably be your best bet. I would go with the Nikon 9000.

memaher said:

The second problem is finding some software which happily works with b&w. I've never been over the moon with Photoshop (elements 4) for B&W work and therefore am not convinced to move to CS3. Suggestions anyone?

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You may wish to give LightZone a try, you can download the trial version. My problem with LightZone is that it could not handle large file sizes from LF scans but the concept of the product seems pretty interesting and unique. It maybe more intuitive to use but I would suggest that the editing software may not be your problem. Have you calibrated and profiled your monitor? Also PS Elements 6 has gotten some good reviews.

memaher said:

The third issue is any suggestions/recommendations on actually printing b&w images - any suggestions on printers which don't give colour casts?

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Most any printer will tend to give color casts, though some of the new Epson and HPs can produce fairly neutral results. IMO, get a printer that is supported by a RIP for best results. QTR is a great inexpensive product but generally only supports Epson printers.

memaher said:

I know, so far I've raised three quite seperate points. However, I'm more interested in knowing peoples recommendations on the entire workflow. Finding individual components is one thing, but finding a suitable workflow which doesn't irrate the hell out of you is another indeed!!

Click to expand...

I highly reccomend reading this book by Amadou Diallo before purchasing any equipment. Diallo is a master digital black and white printer and has written a very good primer.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Dig...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197057332&sr=8-1

Good luck,

Don Bryant

There are several newer printers (within the last year) that offer exceptional B/W right out of the box. They all have a special B/W print mode, and all take several black/gray inks. Epson K3 printers, and HP 9180 come to mind first, but I'm sure there are a couple of others.

I haven't read the above book, but it probably is a good place to start, as I've "talked" to Amadou via email and a few other lists, and he does know a thing or two about this process.

What works for me is a Nikon Coolscan V and VueScan. The only issue with the Nikon is that if you have a high contrast edge on your neg, the scanner can flare. There are several discussions about this on photo net if you want to google over there. I've had to crop the edge of the scan on occasion because of this. VueScan is very idiosyncratic but once you get used to it works great with b&w. Its light grain reduction helps take the edge off of grain and I especially like its adjustable CI.

Good luck.

I doubt this will help ... not unlike with the purely analogue process, we all advocate a vast array of products and processes.
But, just in case ... I use various cameras (35mm, 645, 6x6, 6x7) with various films (mostly B&W) scanned on Nikon 8000 using VueScan and digitally adjusted in Lightzone and then printed on an HP B9180.
I really do like VueScan, love the 9180, and have a love-hate relationship with Lightzone. I love Lightzone's approach, but find that on my G4 Mac that it can be intolerably slow, particularly when working with medium format files.
I just ordered a new 24" 2.4 gig iMac with 4 gig of RAM .... and am hoping that it can speed up the processing.
Good luck in finding your own methodology.
John

Thought it's about time I posted an update after months of debating, reviewing, wrangling and spending...


The workflow so far now consists of:

Nikon FM3 >> Rollei IR400 film >> Minolta Dual Scan IV >> Apple Aperture v2 >> HP9180 >> Sihl Paper.

...the new changes being the film, use of Aperture and the new printer.

The Rollei IR400 film scans beautifully, without exagerated grain. I've pretty much given up on it's IR capabilities, but instead use it as a normal 400iso B&W film.

Apples new Aperture software is more than proving it's worth for b&w work. To be honest, photoshop is overkill for what I'm doing and aperture gives just enough - similar to lightzone, but a more pleasant experience to work with.

Finally, the HP9180 printer is the star of the show. Both b&w and colour rendition is fantastic right-out-the-box. I have suffered from pizza-wheel marks, but only when I use HP Advanced paper, which is a bitch to use at the best of times and (imo) doesn't produce good results.

I've been using printer paper from a company called Sihl. They're eastern european, very cheap and, so far, produce really excellent results for normal 'regular use' printing - far better than the off-the-shelf paper offerings from HP or Epson. I'd say for showcase work, I'll need to invest in some Hahnmule paper, but I'm still plucking the courage up - it ain't cheap.

One thing to fix and one thing left to change...

I'm chasing a problem at the moment with the Aperture/HP9180 combination. The prints are coming out incredibly dark (at least 2 stops) compared to the screen. This will probably be the subject of another posting shortly.

The final thing I need to change is the scanner. I've done an incredible amount of research on the available scanners, the theory, etc, etc. The end result will probably be the purchase of a 'Reflecta' scanner. This is a german brand who don't seem to be around much in the UK or rest of world. The output of these is very comparible to the baby Nikon, but without the expense or snobbery associated with the Nikon brand!

Thats all for the moment - hope the comments help!

Mat

Scanners

You really should try the Canon CanoScan 4400F. We really love ours for scanning negatives. It has a slide place for the negatives and great software to manipulate the photos! We have 2 in our house (1 person is at college sometimes). The only drawback is that it needs a stiffer hinge. We only paid $95.00 (including shipping).

Pamela Holt
Marketing
CatherineHoltPhotography.com