B&W from color print film

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OptiKen

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I have an excess of color print film (Kodak 5217 and 5248) and find myself short of B&W film. I'm thinking of running a few rolls of color print film through my cameras as black and white and then developing it in B&W chemicals.

Both of those films are tungsten balanced for color. Is there a particular filter you would suggest using on the camera to insure a wide range of contrast with this film or should I just treat it as regular B&W and shoot, develop, and print as such?

Happy New Year and thank you in advance.

Ken:wizard:
 

Gerald C Koch

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The orange background will result in long print times. If you use VC paper then the default filtration will have to be determined.
 

removed account4

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i process ct1 and E6 in caffenol and dektol ( formerly i did this in ansco 130 )
and had good results !
someone recently posted results of something ( i think kodachrome ? ) in caffenol c ( just he other day ? )
beautiful stuff !

the mask can be a drag to print through, but it is do-able.

good luck !
john
 

Oxleyroad

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B&W reversal is also an option...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

the orange mask is therein the scans, but when projected you can't tell there is an orange mask.
 
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OptiKen

OptiKen

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B&W reversal is also an option...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

the orange mask is therein the scans, but when projected you can't tell there is an orange mask.

Those are gorgeous. I will have to learn B&W reversal processing.
 

BetterSense

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I shoot C41 as B&W occasionally. I develop 15-20 minutes in HC110 50:1, then print on MGIVRC with a condensor enlarger and grade 4-5.
 

fdonadio

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I understand the OP meant to develop cinema print film stock (normally developed in the ECP-2 process) in black and white. But I am confused by the fact that Kodak 5217 and 5248 are negative stock intended for camera use (and normally developed in the ECN-2 process)...

Negative film stock has an orange mask. Print film does not.
 

MartinP

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5217 and 5248 are rather old, and definitely out of date by now. Also "fdonadio", above, is correct that these are not print films as seemed to be assumed by the OP. Some confusion somewhere I think?
 

KidA

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I have printed from colour negs with great results before. Contrast definitely needs to be bumped up more than normal, and I also heard that anything red will give the effect of more density in the neg, resulting is more white on the the print. I can't really say as the negs I had didn't have much red at all.
 

newcan1

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If you develop the negatives in b&w chemistry, could you not then print black and white prints on RA4 paper in color chemistry?
 

mnemosyne

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I have printed from colour negs with great results before. Contrast definitely needs to be bumped up more than normal, and I also heard that anything red will give the effect of more density in the neg, resulting is more white on the the print. I can't really say as the negs I had didn't have much red at all.

B&w paper is more or less "blind" for red (= the color of darkroom safelights), because it is only sensitive to blue light (graded paper) or blue & green light (VC paper).
 

Ko.Fe.

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I have old Kodak 50D cinefilm developed in HC-100 and printed on bw paper.
It took extra time to develop but prints looks fine.
 

Sirius Glass

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ILford Multigrad Papers, AmanualFor The Darkroom on page 32 suggests starting on grades 3 and 4 and to be aware that the orange tint acts as a safe light so the printing will take up to four times longer.
 

Sirius Glass

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ILford Multigrad Papers, AmanualFor The Darkroom on pages 31-32 suggests starting on grades 3 and 4 and to be aware that the orange tint acts as a safe light so the printing will take up to four times longer.
 

zehner21

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Would it be feasible to use normal colour paper developed in black and white dev and then fixed?
 

fdonadio

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Would it be feasible to use normal colour paper developed in black and white dev and then fixed?

I've just found this thread and it seems it's not a good idea:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

newcan1

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Right, but if you develop the negs as b&w, why not use RA4 paper in COLOR chemistry to get a black and white print? No one has answered that. You would have to get the filtration right.
 

fdonadio

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Right, but if you develop the negs as b&w, why not use RA4 paper in COLOR chemistry to get a black and white print? No one has answered that. You would have to get the filtration right.

Makes sense. If the OP has color paper and a color-capable enlarger, he should be good to go.
 

mnemosyne

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Answer is more or less found here

bottom line:
This is fiddly and it is more or less impossible to get a 100% neutral grey tone.

I guess that the OP would be using x-processed cinematic film instead of a b&w negative plus orange mask would only add to the challenge.

My suggestion to the OP would be to stick with b&w negative film if the resulting image should be a b&w positive.
 

David Lyga

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Yes, indeed, you can get very good B&W negatives from C41 negative film.

I take B&W print developer and dilute it. Say you use Dektol. Instead of mixing the stock solution 1 + 2, as is usually the case for prints, dilute that stock solution 1 + 19. Then, depending upon the temp you wish to employ, time your development anywhere from 6 minutes (85F) to about 12 to 15 minutes (low 70s Fahr). Find a time and temp most suitable. You will get a rather dense negative, maybe one where it is difficult to see the image. (Do not judge image quality until after reduction. After fixing, rinse briefly.

After full fixation, place in reducer. I use 3g of potassium ferricyanide in water to make 200mL. To this solution add about 40mL of new paper-strength fixer.) This solution keeps for maybe 30 minutes so mix it up just before use.

When reducing, make certain to keep agitation consistent so as to reduce evenly. (Don't reduce the whole roll at one time: See below.) With fixers, it does not matter if some parts of the film fix faster, because you fix to completion. But with reduction, this is not the case and you must stop reducing at the proper time. It is best to cut off a few frames and place them into a tray so you can observe and stop that procedure quickly. After a few minutes you will begin to see the film base start to become brighter and brighter orange. This is your clue that the reduction time is nearing completion. You will also see an INCREASE in both contrast and image density manifest. It is imperative that you do not go too far or you will have no, or little, image left. Done properly, you will have a magnificent image that has full contrast and sharpness with little grain. (You might wish to further dilute the reducer with water in order to augment the reduction time.)

Because of the quickness of this procedure, you are best advised to give one stop more exposure so that shadow detail does not get wiped out with the reduction. It takes a bit of practice and you are foolish if you attempt this 'after fixation' reduction process with a full roll of film. Again, this reduction imparts an increase in image contrast that is very pleasing to print; in fact, the contrast you will attain might be deemed by you to be excessive, but I state this because with an orange mask, your negative will automatically be 'seen' as having a grade one filter by most VC papers. (If you use graded papers, give less development time to the C41 negative.)

After fixing, cut off a few frames and do what I said to do. You will be amazed and, as a bonus, you will have full cloud detail without use of a filter because color film captures all the hues. It is important to reduce until the base is a bright orange or else you will have grain problems and a 'dirty' negative. - David Lyga
 
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