B&W filters, shooting in crappy weather

flatulent1 · Nov 18, 2010

1) Checking prices online I see Tiffen B&W filters are half the price of Hoya and B+W. Are they half as good?

2) I plan to get out as much as possible and shoot around Seattle this winter. Usually means lousy weather, and lousy light, nothing but grey clouds and a fair amount of drizzle. (I'm not going out in the snow, I don't care how inviting it looks, I have no sense of balance and would be on my backside in no time if I did.) Is there a recommended filter for shooting B&W in predominantly grey conditions?

I've read a lot about filters and their effects on images in decent light, but nothing that addressed shooting in dismal grey. Is this a filter issue, or is it a film and dev issue?

John Koehrer · Nov 18, 2010

I doubt that any filter will help with gray skies, gray clouds, gray everything.
The filter needs color to pass to affect the film.
A polarizer will help with reflections and maybe glare though.

Ian Grant · Nov 18, 2010

No filters needed at all

If it snows get out there don't be a wimp, but wear good walking boots with a good grip. Youi may want to boost contrast slightly by increasing development time, but it's not essential.

Ian

patrickjames · Nov 18, 2010

If you can get the coated Hoya filter (HMC) for the same price as a regular, uncoated B+W then go for it. I prefer the coated B+W filters myself, but they cost even more. Tiffen filters are better than nothing if they are your only option. It takes ruining only one shot because of flare from the filter to realize it is worth the extra bucks for the better ones.

2F/2F · Nov 18, 2010

Filters work on colors, not on objects. So in order for them to change the relative tone of the sky, for instance, you would need 1) for the sky to be visible, and 2) for the sky to be a color other than gray. You must also take into account the fact that you are not working with normal daylight color temperatures in foul weather (usually much cooler ones), so the effects of filters can be unexpected, and exposure can be off significantly even if you apply the correct filter factor.

On flat days I do a simple overdevelopment, with either normal exposure or overexposure. If you underexpose on a flat day, you can lose a lot of punch in the darker tones, even if you overdevelop.

hpulley · Nov 18, 2010

On blah days you can't do a whole lot about the sky but you'll want to try and enhance contrast as stuff tends to come out flat. Contrasty film or film pushed/underexposed, developing to push the contrast and use of a high contrast filter with MG/VC/PC paper can get good images in yucky lighting.

Toffle · Nov 18, 2010

There was a (there was a url link here which no longer exists) recently on Michael Kenna shooting in conditions very much like you describe. I don't know what filters he used, but he apparently had magic lenses that repelled snowflakes. From the videos I've seen of his work, he's the kind of photographer who has a knack for making amazing photographs at times when more "sensible" people have put their gear away.

Cheers,

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 18, 2010

A red filter may be useful to strike a more dramatic contrast but only if there is some contrast in e.g. the sky vs landscape to start with. Otherwise, in bad weather the light is often very flat and unattractive. Brief bursts of sun through clouds can add another dimension to the landscape, but shooting in rain, fog and general cold presents as many problems in keeping dry and happy as does getting something useable on film. Even colour (positive) film has trouble making a fist of these conditions.

Snow is a phenomenon that dramatically changes the landscape and presents unique opportunities (and again, challenges in keeping warm, comfortable and dry!); it can certainly be used creatively and filter-less in high-key compositions to isolate subjects e.g. trees, buildings, railway lines receding into the distance... The work of Tim Rudman comes to mind regarding snow photography with a noticeable high key and often bas effect. Remember that the light in winter isn't always going to favour you when you get the camera out. "If at first you don't succeed,..." !

OldBikerPete · Nov 18, 2010

Someone on this forum once said something to the effect of 'When the light is great, shoot wide landscapes. When the light is lousy look for small, intimate subjects'. Following that advice might give you more success than trying to use filters to make the light better. It works for me!

Peter

MattKing · Nov 18, 2010

The flat, almost shadowless light can make for interesting close-up opportunities.

And when it isn't actually raining, you can have fun experimenting with flash outdoors.

You also can just about get away with one incident light meter reading per hour.

EDIT: It seems that Peter and I think alike

keithwms · Nov 18, 2010

No filters needed, but do consider adjusting development. There may not be enough scene contrast for normal development.

flatulent1 · Nov 18, 2010

I just had a chat with an acquaintance who teaches darkroom work, she just confirmed what many of you have said here; filters won't help in this weather, but a little overexposure and a little overdevelopment might do what I want.

Patrick, I also prefer the coated B+W filters. Money being what it is(n't) I was willing to settle for cheap until I could afford better. Doesn't look like I have to 'settle' at all now.

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 19, 2010

flatulent1 said:
I just had a chat with an acquaintance who teaches darkroom work, she just confirmed what many of you have said here; filters won't help in this weather, but a little overexposure and a little overdevelopment might do what I want.

Patrick, I also prefer the coated B+W filters. Money being what it is(n't) I was willing to settle for cheap until I could afford better. Doesn't look like I have to 'settle' at all now.

True, very flat, detail-less light is hard to print up. But you should still have a good selection of filters at the ready, irrespective of conditions.

AND, the general rule is you don't stick a $5.00 filter on a $5,000 lens. B+W are truly excellent filters (their KAI-POLS cost a fortune). So too, are HOYA Super HMC.

flatulent1 · Nov 20, 2010

Yes, I have the KAI-POLA in 77mm, that one was not cheap. All my filters are B+W; money being extremely tight just now means either buying inexpensive filters and replacing them later, or not buying them at all until the money is there.

Peter makes an excellent point about shooting small in lousy light, something I've not done much of. It's all a learning process!

JayGannon · Nov 20, 2010

I wont weigh in on the choice issue but Tiffen filters are if anything higher quality then B&W or Hoya their sheet filters are used extensively in motion picture work.

Ian Grant · Nov 20, 2010

keithwms said:
No filters needed, but do consider adjusting development. There may not be enough scene contrast for normal development.

That's an interesting point.

Back in the early 90's getting up on a very foggy day my then partner poured scorn on me when I said I was off to shoot some images. She was a very (highly) competent photographer, LF & MF and a lecturer. But she was adamant I wouldn't be able to shoot landscapes that day.

I made some of my best images that day, I was hesitant whether to give increased development and decided not to, the issue was that by increasing the contrast I'd lose the subtlety and probably the whole bit about have been shooting in fog.

That days shoot produced some superb images, and 5 or 6 have been exhibited.

I think this question is also about portraying what you see and pre-visualise or a a later quite different re-interpretation in the darkroom.

Ian

perkeleellinen · Nov 21, 2010

flatulent1 said:
Usually means lousy weather, and lousy light, nothing but grey clouds and a fair amount of drizzle.

Sounds like England, 90% of my shooting conditions.
Sometimes a red filter can tease out a bit of drama in a grey sky, but you have to be careful as it can darken other parts of the scene. Maybe you can exploit that. Otherwise, go small, look for details, lots of potential in urban areas when it's raining and the street lights are on.

keithwms · Nov 21, 2010

Ian, I agree that increased dev may not necessarily be the right way to go- it all depends what you're after. My point was that if the scene contrast is just a few stops e.g. in a foggy scene, then too much tonal info might be jammed into too small a part of the curve. And that usually leads to difficulties in print.

Of course, if you get what you want then good for you! But people still need to know how to get what they want.

B&W filters, shooting in crappy weather

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