B&W film rotation developing process

lukajaku · Aug 23, 2023

Hello,

I am beginner at film photography with desire to learn to develop film at home. I did some research between Jobo systems, Paterson and SS tanks and I am considering to choose Jobo because I have read that Paterson or SS tanks may leak sometimes. Can anyone who have experience admit or deny it? Next I have read about rotation developing process and because my budget is very limited I was very happy to find out about Cibachrome film roller or Unicolor Uniroller 352/352-2 but I am not sure if this is the best way to develop B&W film with respect to quality. I want to choose rotation method because by choosing it I could save chemistry. I've read that Paterson tanks can also be used with rotation method even though they weren't created for that. To summarize, my purpose is to learn to develop B&W films at home and before making any actions I want to ask - can B&W film quality developed with rotation method be as good as B&W film developed with hand-inversion method?

Thank you!

Besk · Aug 23, 2023

Yes, In my opinion. In addition, there are roller bases available that you can use without a motor. That is what I did for years.

The important thing is to be consistent in your process.

rcphoto · Aug 23, 2023

The steel tanks with steel lids do leak.

koraks · Aug 23, 2023

Welcome to Photrio, @lukajaku!

lukajaku said:
. Can anyone who have experience admit or deny it?

Many/most tanks can leak under certain cirumstances, even the Jobo ones. It's irrelevant and not a practical concern. Don't let this stop you. Just mop up the few drops with a towel.

lukajaku said:
not sure if this is the best way to develop B&W film with respect to quality

It's perfectly fine, and just as 'best' as manual inversion tanks, dip & dunk, etc. Which is to say: you can get excellent results with just about any approach.

When starting out, the most sensible approach in my view is to just get any old manual inversion tank (e.g. Paterson, Kindermann, Nikor etc.) and a set of reels for your format(s). Agitate continuously for the first 30 or 60 seconds, and then one agitation cycle every other 30 or 60 seconds.

Roller bases etc. are nice because you can leave them alone for a while as your film is developing or fixing. But if you only do one or a few rolls a week, it's not really that much work anyway. I have a Jobo and frankly I develop most of my B&W film manually. You really don't need a roller base just to get going. Especially for B&W.

Yes, you save some chemistry with a rotary processor, but chemistry is relatively cheap compared to the film you're going to put into it. Besides, if you're const-sensitive and want to be really rational about it, compare the cost of chemistry saved with the purchase of a roller base or processor, and see where the tipping point is.

Kino · Aug 23, 2023

A manual roller base is probably your best bet. With this you can vary the rotation speed and direction by hand to arrive at a good result, while the motorized platforms tend to have little to no adjustments for rotation speed and direction.

I have a fully automatic Jobo ATL 2300 and, while it is great, it requires far too much maintenance time for casual film developing, is very expensive to properly set-up initially and takes up a great amount of space, not to mention inflexible rotation patterns and just 3 rotation speeds.

A manual roller base can be made with a set of discarded roller skate wheels and a waterproofed wooden frame; you don't need fancy, just durable.

Here's a motorized version, but you don't have to be this complex to start.

OAPOli · Aug 23, 2023

I have a Paterson and a Unicolor tank and they both leak a little. I made a roller base with wood scraps and casters.

DSCF7504 by Olivier, on Flickr

I'm not sure if there is a correct rpm but the Rondinax tank suggests a jerky 15rpm. I've motorised the base but I use it only for fixing.

KyleMika · Aug 23, 2023

I really like that setup with the loan caster! Have you had any issues with your design so far? I am tempted to build a similar one.

OAPOli · Aug 23, 2023

Only issue is that the leaking has degraded the wood base a little. There are two casters btw.

Craig · Aug 23, 2023

OAPOli said:
I'm not sure if there is a correct rpm but the Rondinax tank suggests a jerky 15rpm.

My Jobo is 50 rpm

mshchem · Aug 23, 2023

I would start with a Jobo 1520 tank and 2 reels. Develop manually at 20-24°C using the recommended times. Use Adox Rodinal 1+25, one shot. Ilford rapid fixer (can be reused). Jobo tanks leak very little if at all.
Fotoimpex has everything you need.

Craig · Aug 23, 2023

Why not start with a Paterson tank? It's likely a lot cheaper than a Jobo tank and reels.

BrianShaw · Aug 23, 2023

Craig said:
Why not start with a Paterson tank? It's likely a lot cheaper than a Jobo tank and reels.

My thoughts, exactly. All of these methods will work fine; time has proven that. The OP's stement of being on a very limited budget would imply that he most exonomical option that works would be preferable. Worrying about miniscule details like a bit of leakage seem to be over-thinking the situation.

PRC · Aug 23, 2023

I've been using a Jobo 2551 drum and reels on a Unicolor Uniroller since the early 1980's. I arrived at this combo after testing SS, Patterson and Unicolor drums and reels for E-6 processing in all formats from 35mm to 4x5, but especially for E-6 slide duplication film, which was the most persnickety and difficult film to develop consistently and evenly. Jobo tanks and reels were the only equipment that didn't result in streaks and uneven development, presumably because they filled from the bottom up instead of splashing developer on the film from the top down. For most of my projects, to be safe, I shot two identical batches of film and sent one batch to a local pro specialist film lab for processing and developed the second film batch myself with my Jobo/Uniroller equipment. Every single time my Jobo/Uniroller batch came out more consistent, streak-free, and color-accurate than the pro lab. My only complaint was that it wasn't possible to dry the film on the plastic Jobo reels without getting drying marks so I had to re-spool the film onto SS reels before the final stabilizer step and dry the film on those reels.

I built my current darkroom about 5 years ago and tried an experiment. I took an inline blower fan left over from an HVAC project, added a Shop-Vac filter to the intake side and cut the bottom off a cheap plastic pitcher to hold the plastic Jobo reels, and the blower just blasts the last drops of Photo-Flo off the film and dries it without leaving any drying marks. And it works just as well for 35mm, 120 and 4x5.

PRC · Aug 23, 2023

Oh yeah, even the Jobo tanks leak a few drops but I have never found it amounted to enough to worry about. Also, my Uniroller doesn't have adjustable speed, but I found that the automatic direction reversal every few seconds resulted in the most even development, even on sheet film.

bags27 · Aug 23, 2023

In many hundreds of uses, my 3 Pattersons have leaked a couple of times (mixing and matching the various components). I could figure out the combinations that do, but, frankly, the leaks are minimal, and, when they happen I just adjust for them.

Home developing is a wonderful, crazy journey and a leaking tank is way, way, way down on the list of things that can--and will!--go wrong.

ic-racer · Aug 23, 2023

For many years before I got my Jobo, I used a Unicolor drum, reels and rotating base for all my B&W negative film development. The Unicolor drum was 2-wall, so it kept the chemicals relatively even tempered. I had the longer drum (like this picture). As I recall it could do 5 rolls at a time. The plug at the non-filling end was adjustable, depending on how many reels were in the drum. Pretty clever and minimized chemistry.

MattKing · Aug 23, 2023

I use a Paterson Super System IV tank - the size that will hold 3 reels set to 135 or two reels set to 120 - on a Beseler rotary agitator.
I put them in an 11 x 14 flat bottom tray. The tank top hangs over the end of the agitator, while the tray extends underneath to catch any drops.
If I burp the lid appropriately, I have little or no problems with leaks. Any drops are easily wiped up from the tray.
I also use steel reels in either a steel tank or the plastic equivalent on the same agitator, using the setup pictured below. It too works well, but makes an infernal racket, so I don't use it very often:

As pictured there, the agitator is on a plastic drain board that goes with a dish drying rack - picked up used for a $1.00 at the local thrift store.

pentaxuser · Aug 23, 2023

In terms of what the OP needs to consider in his circumstances as he described to us, I thought that koraks summed it all up quite well

pentaxuser

Craig · Aug 23, 2023

pentaxuser said:
In terms of what the OP needs to consider in his circumstances as he described to us, I thought that koraks summed it all up quite well

Agree. Keep it simple: a cheap tank picked up used, agitate by hand see what you get. Additional equipment can be bought later, many of us have done thousands of rolls by hand with no problems.

MattKing · Aug 23, 2023

I agree as well.
I added the rotation for reasons of convenience, efficiency and to aid in consistency.
If you pay careful attention to details, you can ensure consistency without adding "automation".

Sirius Glass · Aug 23, 2023

Bob Eskridge said:
Yes, In my opinion. In addition, there are roller bases available that you can use without a motor. That is what I did for years.

The important thing is to be consistent in your process.

rcphoto said:
The steel tanks with steel lids do leak.

Steel tanks with plastic lids do not leak if the lid is pliable.

Sirius Glass · Aug 23, 2023

lukajaku said:
Hello,

I am beginner at film photography with desire to learn to develop film at home. I did some research between Jobo systems, Paterson and SS tanks and I am considering to choose Jobo because I have read that Paterson or SS tanks may leak sometimes. Can anyone who have experience admit or deny it? Next I have read about rotation developing process and because my budget is very limited I was very happy to find out about Cibachrome film roller or Unicolor Uniroller 352/352-2 but I am not sure if this is the best way to develop B&W film with respect to quality. I want to choose rotation method because by choosing it I could save chemistry. I've read that Paterson tanks can also be used with rotation method even though they weren't created for that. To summarize, my purpose is to learn to develop B&W films at home and before making any actions I want to ask - can B&W film quality developed with rotation method be as good as B&W film developed with hand-inversion method?

Thank you!

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

rcphoto · Aug 23, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Steel tanks with plastic lids do not leak if the lid is pliable.

You are correct, I was speaking about the metal lids.

Mick Fagan · Aug 24, 2023

Firstly, welcome to Photrio.

With care you can get really excellent film development using either rotary or hand inversion systems.

To start, if you find almost any kind of 35mm developing tank and a single reel or multiple reels, and the price is right, get it.

I have used quite a few different film developing tanks over the last 60 years, they all work well if you take care. Some are easier to work with, others are not so easy, but they all develop film well.

Eventually I settled on Jobo because like most 35mm cameras, they are a system. Jobo is a film and paper developing system. You can buy various lenses for your camera, and with Jobo you can buy various tank extensions and other stuff to change your developing tank to suit your needs.

The base tank I suggest you start with, is the 1520 tank. With this you can develop 2 x 35mm films and 2 x 120 films although developing 2 x 120 films on a single reel is a bit fiddly to get both films on the single reel.

If you progress and need more developing options, then you can add the 1530 extension kit. The 1530 comes with an outer tank extension, a red locking ring and a centre core extension. You just join the core extension to the 1520 centre core, join the outer extension to the 1520 tank and then you can develop 5 x 35mm films together.

A very handy tank is the 1510, which holds 1 x 35mm film and is the smallest of the Jobo 1500 series of tanks. If you add the 1530 extension kit, you can develop 4 x 35 rolls of film. This configuration is called the 1540 tank.

Jobo 1500 series of tanks are named after their 35mm film capacity.

1510 1 x 35mm film
1520 2 x 35mm films
1540 4 x 35mm films (1510 tank and 1530 extender)
The 1530 extender holds 3 x 35mm films

It is possible to roll the 1540 tank on a table, floor or flat darkroom sink by hand, as the two red locking rings mean the tank sits perfectly flat and will roll back and forth between your hands. The 1520 tank with the 1530 extender also rolls perfectly flat like the 1540 tank.

If you are able to find or build something that rotates your developing tank, then do so; it certainly makes life easier.

I have had a Jobo CPE2 which I bought new and used it a real lot, eventually after thousands of rolls of film and colour prints and around 30 years of use, it died. I have not replaced it and I probably won't; unless someone gives me one. They are very good, but to be honest, many are either worn out, but you could be lucky and get one that is not been used that much.

If you do get a Jobo rotary processor, then one with a lift is better than one without a lift. Either is good, but having a lift is very nice.

mshchem · Aug 24, 2023

Mick Fagan said:
Firstly, welcome to Photrio.

With care you can get really excellent film development using either rotary or hand inversion systems.

To start, if you find almost any kind of 35mm developing tank and a single reel or multiple reels, and the price is right, get it.

I have used quite a few different film developing tanks over the last 60 years, they all work well if you take care. Some are easier to work with, others are not so easy, but they all develop film well.

Eventually I settled on Jobo because like most 35mm cameras, they are a system. Jobo is a film and paper developing system. You can buy various lenses for your camera, and with Jobo you can buy various tank extensions and other stuff to change your developing tank to suit your needs.

The base tank I suggest you start with, is the 1520 tank. With this you can develop 2 x 35mm films and 2 x 120 films although developing 2 x 120 films on a single reel is a bit fiddly to get both films on the single reel.

If you progress and need more developing options, then you can add the 1530 extension kit. The 1530 comes with an outer tank extension, a red locking ring and a centre core extension. You just join the core extension to the 1520 centre core, join the outer extension to the 1520 tank and then you can develop 5 x 35mm films together.

A very handy tank is the 1510, which holds 1 x 35mm film and is the smallest of the Jobo 1500 series of tanks. If you add the 1530 extension kit, you can develop 4 x 35 rolls of film. This configuration is called the 1540 tank.

Jobo 1500 series of tanks are named after their 35mm film capacity.

1510 1 x 35mm film
1520 2 x 35mm films
1540 4 x 35mm films (1510 tank and 1530 extender)
The 1530 extender holds 3 x 35mm films

It is possible to roll the 1540 tank on a table, floor or flat darkroom sink by hand, as the two red locking rings mean the tank sits perfectly flat and will roll back and forth between your hands. The 1520 tank with the 1530 extender also rolls perfectly flat like the 1540 tank.

If you are able to find or build something that rotates your developing tank, then do so; it certainly makes life easier.

I have had a Jobo CPE2 which I bought new and used it a real lot, eventually after thousands of rolls of film and colour prints and around 30 years of use, it died. I have not replaced it and I probably won't; unless someone gives me one. They are very good, but to be honest, many are either worn out, but you could be lucky and get one that is not been used that much.

If you do get a Jobo rotary processor, then one with a lift is better than one without a lift. Either is good, but having a lift is very nice.

Mick
Very well said!. Jobo is indeed a system that can be adapted to do whatever you want to do going forward.
Best Regards Mike

B&W film rotation developing process

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