B&W film in room temperature

tkamiya · Dec 17, 2009

I am aware, the best way to keep film is to store it frozen or refrigerated, then take them out few hours prior to actual use. As far as B&W films are concerned (such as Tmax-400 and Tmax-100), how important/critical is this?

I hear, for color films, this is critical as professional films are less forgiving and within a week or so at non-refregerated state, they can start to shift colors.

Would B&W film be affected? Would 1 month in camera at room temperature cause any change? There is no color to shift in B&W films. I certainly don't want to have it like this for months after months, but what's permissible?

Of course, my scenario excludes higher temperature than us human can comfortably live - such as in trunk of a vehicle under direct sun in summer.

Ian Grant · Dec 17, 2009

B&W film is fine at normal room temperatures, it keeps years. I live in quite a warm part of the world 42°C outside at times in the Summer and it's not an issue, it's in a couple of drawers just a few inches off the floor which is always the coolest part of a room,

Ian.

rwboyer · Dec 17, 2009

One more vote for "don't worry about BW film to much" I just processed a couple rolls of Tri-X that I SHOT 8 years ago (not my normal mode of operation) that I found in a box that was packed during one of my many moves - the storage conditions for the box were not optimal - like garages in TX for a couple of years of blistering summer heat, etc.

The negatives were fine - I actually posted a frame here a while ago but here is another one - realize this film was shot 8 years ago and then abused.

tkamiya · Dec 17, 2009

Glad I asked. Thank you both!

Mike Kennedy · Dec 17, 2009

I processed a roll of 120 B&W that was shot in 1959 and stored in my grandfathers old desk.I was able to print 10 out of 12 negs.
NOTE:What a P.I.T.A to get the film on my 120 spool!

tkamiya · Dec 17, 2009

Holy cow!

moouers · Dec 17, 2009

Mike Kennedy said:
I processed a roll of 120 B&W that was shot in 1959 and stored in my grandfathers old desk.I was able to print 10 out of 12 negs.
NOTE:What a P.I.T.A to get the film on my 120 spool!

Haha! Holy crap.

ntenny · Dec 17, 2009

I've seen it suggested that the latent image is more stable than the unexposed film is. That is, you're likely to get a better image from film exposed 20 years ago than from film left alone for 20 years and then exposed and developed.

My limited experience with "fossilised" film accords with this wisdom. I've gotten reasonably good images from *infrared* film that was exposed probably 50 years ago, but I could barely get a discernible visible-light image to come out on the film from the same box that hadn't been previously exposed, and as far as I can tell it's lost its IR sensitivity completely.

I guess this means that the activated/unactivated status of silver grains is more stable than the sensitising dyes are, basically.

-NT

Terrence Brennan · Dec 18, 2009

Verichrome film

Mike Kennedy said:
I processed a roll of 120 B&W that was shot in 1959 and stored in my grandfathers old desk.I was able to print 10 out of 12 negs.
NOTE:What a P.I.T.A to get the film on my 120 spool!

About 15 years ago, I processed a roll of Kodak Verichrome Film, 122 size. This was the predecessor to Verichrome Pan, which was discontinued some time in the 1950's. The number I see on Google searches is the 1953-54 range, which would make it older than me!

Anyway, I developed it in a rack-and-tank processor, in HC-110, dilution D, and while the fog level was high, there were still usable images. The customer said that there were pictures of his grandfather on the roll!

Steve Smith · Dec 18, 2009

ntenny said:
I've seen it suggested that the latent image is more stable than the unexposed film is. That is, you're likely to get a better image from film exposed 20 years ago than from film left alone for 20 years and then exposed and developed.

I have experienced the opposite with Kodachrome.

Last year I was given three rolls which were dated 1986. I used two rolls but the third had already been through a camera. My two turned out fine but the third roll which was exposed in the early 1980s had quite dark and colour shifted images.

I have never kept film in a fridge or freezer. I think if you are going to use it within a few weeks of purchase then it's not going to make any difference.

Steve.

jeffreyg · Dec 18, 2009

About twenty-four years ago we took some snapshots at my son's high school graduation with my wife's point and shoot camera with one of Kodak's color negative films. Four years after that we happened to take her camera to his college graduation. The camera had some film in it so we finished the roll and had one-hour developing to be sure we had a decent record before he turned in his cap and gown. You guessed it -- his high school and college graduations were on the same roll of film and both came out very well.

naugastyle · Dec 18, 2009

Oh, that's awesome! But I'm quite surprised she never found any use for that camera in the 4 years between graduations.

Mike Kennedy, why was it a PITA to load? Was the old 120 a different size?

Ian Grant · Dec 18, 2009

Some of the old film base was thinner and not as rigid and far harder to load. And the curl is far worse after many years on a spool

Ian

RalphLambrecht · Dec 18, 2009

tkamiya said:
I am aware, the best way to keep film is to store it frozen or refrigerated, then take them out few hours prior to actual use. As far as B&W films are concerned (such as Tmax-400 and Tmax-100), how important/critical is this?

I hear, for color films, this is critical as professional films are less forgiving and within a week or so at non-refregerated state, they can start to shift colors.

Would B&W film be affected? Would 1 month in camera at room temperature cause any change? There is no color to shift in B&W films. I certainly don't want to have it like this for months after months, but what's permissible?

Of course, my scenario excludes higher temperature than us human can comfortably live - such as in trunk of a vehicle under direct sun in summer.

Well, I read all the threads so far, and I don't doubt any of stories told. You will be able to make good negatives from old films and the latent image stability of B&W film is quite amazing. Nevertheless, you will lose film speed over time. I would not be surprised if you lost 1/3 or 2/3 od a stop within a few years. If you are a shadow-detail lover, like I am, this matters. Keeping a film refrigerated will slow down the speed loss and takes little effort. If you hesitate to freeze the film, it's a good compromise is to keep it cool in a regular fridge at about 5C. There is nothing wrong with that.

tkamiya · Dec 18, 2009

Ralph,

What I decided to do was to keep bulk of my film in frig as I have always done. But, I am not going to worry about the time the film is in the camera, which will likely be short - as in few months at the most. I heard color film needs to be exposed and processed in matter of weeks or suffer color shift. I wasn't sure what the rules were for B&W film. As was advised earlier, I bought what I thought I would use in a year. Story here tells me, I don't need to be paranoid about this.

Thanks.

Ian Grant · Dec 18, 2009

Surprisingly Ilford don't recommend refrigeration, but storage between 10°-20°C and even in the heat here in Turkey the drawers I store film in don't go much above that temperature, maybe 22° at the most. (I store a spare thermometer there to).

If you want to store film past it's use by date, then refrigeration will help but for normal use where you renew your films stock and keepit in or bear the use by date then refrigeration is completely unecessary and you most certainly won't lose any shadow detail by not doing so.

Ralphs point about keeping a few years would mean it's out of date anyway. Most film has a 2-3 year date these days from new compared to 5 years a few years ago.

IAn

rwboyer · Dec 18, 2009

tkamiya said:
Ralph,

What I decided to do was to keep bulk of my film in frig as I have always done. But, I am not going to worry about the time the film is in the camera, which will likely be short - as in few months at the most. I heard color film needs to be exposed and processed in matter of weeks or suffer color shift. I wasn't sure what the rules were for B&W film. As was advised earlier, I bought what I thought I would use in a year. Story here tells me, I don't need to be paranoid about this.

Thanks.

Color shift in weeks? Maybe if you are shooting film from the 60's and you live on Mercury (not kodachrome - that stuff doesn't even have dyes in it).

RB

RalphLambrecht · Dec 18, 2009

tkamiya said:
Ralph,

What I decided to do was to keep bulk of my film in frig as I have always done. But, I am not going to worry about the time the film is in the camera, which will likely be short - as in few months at the most. I heard color film needs to be exposed and processed in matter of weeks or suffer color shift. I wasn't sure what the rules were for B&W film. As was advised earlier, I bought what I thought I would use in a year. Story here tells me, I don't need to be paranoid about this.

Thanks.

I agree, you'll be fine that way.

ssloansjca · Dec 18, 2009

Not all films keep equally

Some films, like Tri-X and old Verichrome Pan keep their latent images for decades. Others, like Ilford Pan-F, not so well. I will not go more than 60 days from exposure to development with Pan-F.

The image degrades pretty quickly I have found with that film.

~Steve Sloan

naugastyle · Dec 18, 2009

tkamiya, I honestly think you have heard some very exaggerated things about color film.

And the curl is far worse after many years on a spool

Oh--duh! Of course, you're right .

B&W film in room temperature

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