B&W film developing

TareqPhoto · May 29, 2010

alexhill said:
Congratulations! I'm glad you got 2 outa 3. When I started in high school, my first couple rolls were crap and unusable. Nothing makes you want to give up like total failure!

Keep it up, and perhaps you can convince the rest of the photo club to try out developing film

Thank you!
I was reading too much, even printed all the developers sheets i have so far from the websites and was reading about the fixers and different film and so, all that to make the failure less, and even that first roll i think i may get it fine but i think the failure can be many reasons not just the developing process, and for the next films i will develop i will be sure i will not do mistakes much, so i am happy so far and i will not waste time on developing always at home, as i may shoot something serious in the next period and i don't want to sacrifice or take a risk to develop and not sure i may get it or have mistakes, i will send my important to the lab and the rest i will DIY.

tkamiya · May 29, 2010

These days, sending films to labs aren't guarantee that they will come back usable. After few more practice, I think, you would be able to do a fine job doing it on your own. Just don't do it in a hurry and make easily avoidable mistakes.... such as putting fixer first and developer next... like I did many years ago and I nearly did yesterday. (if you do... you'll have absolutely nothing on film!)

TareqPhoto · May 29, 2010

tkamiya said:
These days, sending films to labs aren't guarantee that they will come back usable. After few more practice, I think, you would be able to do a fine job doing it on your own. Just don't do it in a hurry and make easily avoidable mistakes.... such as putting fixer first and developer next... like I did many years ago and I nearly did yesterday. (if you do... you'll have absolutely nothing on film!)

I know what you mean, but the lab that i use in my area is the best ever and they will do it for me, i saw all the machines and equipments they have, and my friend sent them over 60 rolls of B&W and color, they all came out fine unless the film itself is not exposed will or ruined, i sent my all color rolls to them and they are all excellent except one or 2 with my mistakes [one stored in heat and the other has light leak].
I will still do it by myself when i can and have mood, but sometimes i may be in hurry and busy so i may send to the lab just few, and i will try to shoot 3 same rolls of film and i send one to the lab and the other 2 i develop by myself [with different process] and see the results.
Also to avoid mistakes, i think i have to use tapes and write notes on them or use different beakers or measuring cups for different chemicals, i read a lot about putting the wrong chemicals so i have to be very careful in this case.

cj8281 · May 30, 2010

With the fixer that I use, I remove the film from the tank after 2 minutes and do a quick inspection. If the film is milky, I put it back in the fixer for another minute and recheck. If it is clear at the next inspection then I fix it for another 3 minutes. If, on the first inspection the film has cleared, then I fix it for another 2 minutes. I believe the rule is to fix for twice as long as it takes to clear. I also keep track of the amount of film that I have fixed with a batch of fixer. Different fixers have different amounts of film that can be fixed. It is usually listed on the paper that comes with the fixer. I calculate it out then when it has reached that amount I dispose of it. I can do inspections by removing a short length of film from the reel because I use stainless steel reels and they can be loaded when wet. The plastic patterson reels can not be loaded when wet or damp for that matter.
So what kind of film are you using?? What kind of camera??

tkamiya · May 30, 2010

You are lucky, Tareq, for having a lab near by that will serve your needs and work with you. Amazingly enough (or not), many of us in US aren't that lucky. Anyway, congratulation for processing your own film.

TareqPhoto · May 31, 2010

cj8281 said:
With the fixer that I use, I remove the film from the tank after 2 minutes and do a quick inspection. If the film is milky, I put it back in the fixer for another minute and recheck. If it is clear at the next inspection then I fix it for another 3 minutes. If, on the first inspection the film has cleared, then I fix it for another 2 minutes. I believe the rule is to fix for twice as long as it takes to clear. I also keep track of the amount of film that I have fixed with a batch of fixer. Different fixers have different amounts of film that can be fixed. It is usually listed on the paper that comes with the fixer. I calculate it out then when it has reached that amount I dispose of it. I can do inspections by removing a short length of film from the reel because I use stainless steel reels and they can be loaded when wet. The plastic patterson reels can not be loaded when wet or damp for that matter.
So what kind of film are you using?? What kind of camera??

I just did develop 2 film so far, i found that there is enough fixer, and i reused the fixer and it worked fine for the second roll, then i stored it in a bottle[Amber glass bottle] and i will use it later and see if it is still working fine[i have hypo checker].

for film, i am using three cameras:
Mamiya RZ67 Pro II
Hasselblad 501CM
Holga 120WPC

Just i hope i can add a large format then i am done.

TareqPhoto · May 31, 2010

tkamiya said:
You are lucky, Tareq, for having a lab near by that will serve your needs and work with you. Amazingly enough (or not), many of us in US aren't that lucky. Anyway, congratulation for processing your own film.

I didn't know about before, but when i asked and my friend who shoot film told about it then i never worry, they can do whatever i want, experienced for 30 years or so, but i am just amazed and wondering how come in US there is no lab near you?!!! I thought in USA it is full in all states or even in each city and/or town.

MartinCrabtree · May 31, 2010

American business sees nothing other than profit. So there's less money in film these days and labs that will develop B&W are dwindling. I have to send mine away as well. That's changing,at least for the negatives at first.

TareqPhoto · May 31, 2010

MartinCrabtree said:
American business sees nothing other than profit. So there's less money in film these days and labs that will develop B&W are dwindling. I have to send mine away as well. That's changing,at least for the negatives at first.

Oh i see, too bad news.
Then i should be fine for i don't know how long, as i am not sure if this lab will keep the business in film, but the great in this lab is that they doing both, film and digital, so they will never close, and they will do film by request if no much use anyway, and i started to develop my B&W and i see how great i can do it by myself and i am so thrilled, and i hope if i can do the same with color as i heard some did it at home and succeeded, but i am not in rush at all, also i see myself that i will not shoot film too much so i need the lab always or i must develop by myself, so i will keep developing some B&W at home and the rest with all colors and some B&W i will send to the lab, still i will never give up digital and i use digital more anyway.
I was hoping you people use film more and more, because american business depends on you, if many of you convert to digital then i can't blame those labs, even if i have a lab there and see no much film shooters to develop then why i keep the lab open, i can understand it but i hope you try to increase and encourage more and more people to get into film.

TareqPhoto · Jun 20, 2010

How i agitate for developer?
And how i agitate for the fixer?

I need the answer as soon as possible please

mopar_guy · Jun 20, 2010

There is a section in APUG that has some instructional videos. Click on the videos tab near the top of the page. Look for the series of "Darkroom" videos. Watch the four part series "How to Develop B&W Roll Film" by Jason Brunner.

TareqPhoto · Jun 20, 2010

mopar_guy said:
There is a section in APUG that has some instructional videos. Click on the videos tab near the top of the page. Look for the series of "Darkroom" videos. Watch the four part series "How to Develop B&W Roll Film" by Jason Brunner.

OK, i apologize and very sorry to my question, i watched all the videos before, but i should be more clearly about my question, i was meaning about how many times i should agitate for each the developer and the fixer, not really meaning how to agitate, sorry again.

mopar_guy · Jun 20, 2010

What I do is as follows:

Process temperature 20 degrees C.
Five tank inversions for each 30 seconds.
Try to keep agitation consistent.
I use the same agitation for fixer.

Other photographers may use different methods.

MattKing · Jun 20, 2010

Tareq:

One recommended procedure follows:

Agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds. Then for 5 seconds each 30 seconds. Each set of agitation should be followed by tapping the tank against a protected surface (like a towel covered counter).

Each set of agitation needs to involve both inversion and some rotation, and should be somewhat random. A combined flip and rotation of the wrist can accomplish this, or you may prefer to grab the tank with two hands (one on each end) and invert and rotate.

It helps to visualize the chemistry as tumbling gently through the moving reel.

TareqPhoto · Jun 20, 2010

OK, i've done one developing film, and it seems i failed this time, could be my developing process was not done properly.
Thank you very much!

pentaxuser · Jun 21, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
OK, i've done one developing film, and it seems i failed this time, could be my developing process was not done properly.
Thank you very much!

It is difficult to know what you are doing without being with you but at the risk of appearing to insult your intelligence, all I can say is that if you have loaded the film in the dark so no light has fogged the film and if you have mixed the developer according to the manufacturer's instructions and developed for the right time at the right temp according to the manufacturer's instructions then you should be getting very good negatives. Manufacturer's times produce good negs.

If you then fix according to instructions and then wash, everything should be right. There are two patterns of agitation. In one you agitate by inversion for 30 sec then 2-3 inversions every 30 sec. In the other( Ilford) you invert for 10 secs for 4-5 inversions then do so again for 10 secs every minute.

Fixing agitation is less important but try the same as for developing.

Provided that you are agitating to either pattern above then it is unlikely that your agitation is the cause of failure.

When you say you have failed can you describe what the failed negs look like?

pentaxuser

michaelbsc · Jun 21, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
OK, i've done one developing film, and it seems i failed this time, could be my developing process was not done properly.
Thank you very much!

Darkroom techniques are like riding a bicycle. It takes a little while to get used to it, and you fall down more often at first than you do after you've had practice.

Let me assure you that:

1) You can learn to do this. I learned it as a child, and I'm not so smart.

2) After you've done it thousands of time you'll still mess it up sometimes.

Michael

TareqPhoto · Jun 21, 2010

pentaxuser said:
It is difficult to know what you are doing without being with you but at the risk of appearing to insult your intelligence, all I can say is that if you have loaded the film in the dark so no light has fogged the film and if you have mixed the developer according to the manufacturer's instructions and developed for the right time at the right temp according to the manufacturer's instructions then you should be getting very good negatives. Manufacturer's times produce good negs.

If you then fix according to instructions and then wash, everything should be right. There are two patterns of agitation. In one you agitate by inversion for 30 sec then 2-3 inversions every 30 sec. In the other( Ilford) you invert for 10 secs for 4-5 inversions then do so again for 10 secs every minute.

Fixing agitation is less important but try the same as for developing.

Provided that you are agitating to either pattern above then it is unlikely that your agitation is the cause of failure.

When you say you have failed can you describe what the failed negs look like?

pentaxuser

I followed that of Ilford agitation i think, 10 secs for 5 inversions then same every minute.

I think the failure i am talking about is that the frames all came our so dense, black with some fine at the edges, means all the shots are blown out with vignetting, i didn't scan yet, but it seems maybe my exposure time was not good, or the developing process affect my exposed ASA maybe.

pentaxuser · Jun 22, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
I followed that of Ilford agitation i think, 10 secs for 5 inversions then same every minute.

I think the failure i am talking about is that the frames all came our so dense, black with some fine at the edges, means all the shots are blown out with vignetting, i didn't scan yet, but it seems maybe my exposure time was not good, or the developing process affect my exposed ASA maybe.

OK I think we can rule out your agitation being any problem. If all the negs are very dense then it suggests you may have overexposed the film. I think we can take it that you will not have overdeveloped it as you will have followed the instructions for the correct speed of film used.

Let's assume that your film had a manufacturer's speed of 400 . It may be that you had set the speed on the camera wrong or have moved the the film speed dial without realising it.

The other cause might be that your camera's meter or the meter you use is seriously wrong.

Where you live means that the sunny f16 rule should apply when it is sunny which it must be most days. This says that at aperture f16 the meter should give an exposure of the reciprocal of the film speed so 1/400th of a second.

Have a look at your meter. If the exposure is much different from this then it might be that your meter is wrong. So if the meter says only 1/125th of a second then it is two stops wrong and it means you are developing a 400 film as is it was an ISO 125 film. This will give dense negs but they should still be printable in a darkroom .

The meter would have to be very wrong to give negs that were unprintable. I cannot give any advice on how you scan and then do hybrid prints. I don't know anything about scanning and this area more properly belongs to the hybrid photo section.

pentaxuser

TareqPhoto · Jun 22, 2010

pentaxuser said:
OK I think we can rule out your agitation being any problem. If all the negs are very dense then it suggests you may have overexposed the film. I think we can take it that you will not have overdeveloped it as you will have followed the instructions for the correct speed of film used.

Let's assume that your film had a manufacturer's speed of 400 . It may be that you had set the speed on the camera wrong or have moved the the film speed dial without realising it.

The other cause might be that your camera's meter or the meter you use is seriously wrong.

Where you live means that the sunny f16 rule should apply when it is sunny which it must be most days. This says that at aperture f16 the meter should give an exposure of the reciprocal of the film speed so 1/400th of a second.

Have a look at your meter. If the exposure is much different from this then it might be that your meter is wrong. So if the meter says only 1/125th of a second then it is two stops wrong and it means you are developing a 400 film as is it was an ISO 125 film. This will give dense negs but they should still be printable in a darkroom .

The meter would have to be very wrong to give negs that were unprintable. I cannot give any advice on how you scan and then do hybrid prints. I don't know anything about scanning and this area more properly belongs to the hybrid photo section.

pentaxuser

Thank you very much!

I think it is an issue of exposure, my developing is fine from what i can see [i can see the type of film clear, and i scanned one frame of the neg, the well exposed came out great, but the shot is overexposed so much on another corners].

In fact i was using Holga Pinhole 120WPC, i struggle to read the exposure meter for this camera at all.

pentaxuser · Jun 22, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
Thank you very much!

I think it is an issue of exposure, my developing is fine from what i can see [i can see the type of film clear, and i scanned one frame of the neg, the well exposed came out great, but the shot is overexposed so much on another corners].

In fact i was using Holga Pinhole 120WPC, i struggle to read the exposure meter for this camera at all.

I must admit that I know nothing of Holgas but it may be that a Holga pinhole 120WPC isn't the best camera to be using when learning developing and printing. It may give you problems that other cameras do not and this may make learning more difficult.

Anyway it sounds as if we have eliminated your developing process as the problem which is good.

pentaxuser

TareqPhoto · Jun 22, 2010

pentaxuser said:
I must admit that I know nothing of Holgas but it may be that a Holga pinhole 120WPC isn't the best camera to be using when learning developing and printing. It may give you problems that other cameras do not and this may make learning more difficult.

Anyway it sounds as if we have eliminated your developing process as the problem which is good.

pentaxuser

Thank you very much!

I agree, in fact i use this Holga just for fun, and i shouldn't make it a catastrophic story if i couldn't use it well yet, so i will keep using Hasselblad and Mamiya and see how they will perform with my development.

TareqPhoto · Jun 27, 2010

I want to ask this question please: Can i use a diluted fixer again more than once? say 3 times maybe? I diluted a fixer and used it first time 3 days ago and i didn't dump it and stored in a bottle amber in dark place, but is it still usable or i have to make another fixer? I want to develop one film now and i am not sure if the fixer is still active since 2-3 days ago, i have a hypo checker for the fixer but really i don't know how it is working yet, any help here please?

Rick A · Jun 27, 2010

Yes, you can reuse the fixer. The literature that comes with the chems will tell you capacities. Just keep track of how many rolls you use it for, and check it with your hypo check kit.

ozphoto · Jun 27, 2010

I use mixed fixer until it takes more than five minutes to clear a test piece of film: best way to test is to put a piece of unprocessed film into a jug and pour some of the fixer from your bottle to cover it well, to see how long it takes to clear. Anything longer than a few minutes and I dispose of correctly.

The fixer you mixed three days ago should be fine - do this quick check and you'll know if you need to mix a new batch, but I don't think you will have any problems.

B&W film developing

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