B&W Film and Paper Chemicals

Hi everyone, you know that we have two types of chemicals Liquid and Powder, and sometime the chemicals end the life time without develop enough films and Papers then through it away and this waste of money.

Q: could I use a small quantity of powder or a concentrate liquid to do 1L then keep the rest? or once i open the pack or bottle i have to mix them all..?

Regards

With Powder chemicals you need to mix the whole pack in one go, I buy the 1 litre packs ow ID11/d76 and they develop 10 films per litre at stock and will store in a full bottle for a few months, with liquid they are mostly 1 shot, you mix as much as you want for a film, develop the film and discard

i'm using TMAX developer so i can mix as much as i need instead of 1G?

what about the fixer and HCA powder, could i mix 1L each time instead of 1G?

nsmk82 said:

Hi everyone, you know that we have two types of chemicals Liquid and Powder, and sometime the chemicals end the life time without develop enough films and Papers then through it away and this waste of money.

Q: could I use a small quantity of powder or a concentrate liquid to do 1L then keep the rest? or once i open the pack or bottle i have to mix them all..?

Regards

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Welcome to APUG!

Your question is one that comes up regularly.

For liquids, in most cases, you can mix just what you need. You should be aware, however, that chemicals in partially filled bottles don't keep as long as chemicals in full bottles. There are a number of different ways (decanting to smaller bottles, using marbles to displace air, filling bottles with inert gases) that people try to extend the life of liquid chemicals.

With respect to powders, it is usually not a good idea to mix up portions of packages. In most cases it is impossible to ensure that the different constituent parts of the powdered chemicals are evenly distributed through the package. If you split the package up into smaller parts, they all won't be the same.

While it is always best to avoid waste, in most cases the cost of the wasted material is quite small. As an example, it would cost me about $15.00 for a package of XTOL developer that makes 5 litres. If I only developed 60 rolls in it and used 4 litres in six months before I had to discard it, I would only be wasting $3.00 worth - less than the price of one film.

MattKing said:

Welcome to APUG!

Your question is one that comes up regularly.

For liquids, in most cases, you can mix just what you need. You should be aware, however, that chemicals in partially filled bottles don't keep as long as chemicals in full bottles. There are a number of different ways (decanting to smaller bottles, using marbles to displace air, filling bottles with inert gases) that people try to extend the life of liquid chemicals.

With respect to powders, it is usually not a good idea to mix up portions of packages. In most cases it is impossible to ensure that the different constituent parts of the powdered chemicals are evenly distributed through the package. If you split the package up into smaller parts, they all won't be the same.

While it is always best to avoid waste, in most cases the cost of the wasted material is quite small. As an example, it would cost me about $15.00 for a package of XTOL developer that makes 5 litres. If I only developed 60 rolls in it and used 4 litres in six months before I had to discard it, I would only be wasting $3.00 worth - less than the price of one film.

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thank you very much for welcome and your answer. regards

The vast majority of my darkroom chemicals are home made. I therefore pro rate the amounts required in each formula to make smaller quantities of the stock solution.

Fixer doesn't really expire if it's in a sealed, full bottle, so I wouldn't worry about using up fixer in a rapid manner (but always use rapid fixer). HCA...get a bottle of Permawash and make a fresh gallon once a week. It uses so little concentrate that a bottle of it goes a long, long way. Or, get a jar of sodium sulfite and dump a capful or two into a gallon of water and dissolve...instant HCA.

Developer...I mostly use liquids from concentrate, but in the case of powder, I make the full quantity, and then separate it into smaller bottles, so when one is exhausted, I just dump the used up stuff, and open a new bottle...gets rid of the whole filling up airspace with glass marbles thing, and keeps life organized..

Chris Lange said:

Fixer doesn't really expire if it's in a sealed, full bottle, so ...

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That's not exactly true. It doesn't really go bad like most developers do, but it can become unusable. Years ago I was given a bottle of Ilford fixer, don't remember whether it was Hypam or Ilford Rapid, but it was an old full, sealed bottle. When I opened it, I noticed something yellow in there. The fixer had sulfurised and the walls of the bottle were covered by a layer of sulfur. Surprisingly, it worked, but it cleared the film leader I tested it with a little slower than normal. Needless to say, I wouldn't dare using it, so it was tossed.

Are you talking about concentrate in a bottle, or already mixed? I don't enjoy using old fixer either, and as a rule, I don't even bother...but on the rare occasion I've been given a bottle, it's always "worked"...never as well as my routinely freshly made c-41 fix though.

Oh, it was an unused bottle, still had the factory seal, but I din't know the conditions under which it was stored, nor its age.

Fixer doesn't always last long in any instance. If you smell it getting "stinky", then it is separating. A gallon of mixed Dektol can last a surprisingly long time, oddly enough. The film developer should not be trusted after the prescribed times, only because you can't know what kind of shape they're in until the film is ruined. As for Perma Wash, I'm just about convinced it is snake oil. I've switched over to a sodium sulphite solution, mainly because of my exposure to this website. And no, you can't just mix as much powdered chemical as you need. The different chemical powders are not perfectly distributed in the package.

Chris Lange said:

Are you talking about concentrate in a bottle, or already mixed? I don't enjoy using old fixer either, and as a rule, I don't even bother...but on the rare occasion I've been given a bottle, it's always "worked"...never as well as my routinely freshly made c-41 fix though.

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if i have a TMAX concentrate in a kodak bottle, could i use a small portion and leave the rest in the kodak bottle

Tom1956 said:

Fixer doesn't always last long in any instance. If you smell it getting "stinky", then it is separating. A gallon of mixed Dektol can last a surprisingly long time, oddly enough. The film developer should not be trusted after the prescribed times, only because you can't know what kind of shape they're in until the film is ruined. As for Perma Wash, I'm just about convinced it is snake oil. I've switched over to a sodium sulphite solution, mainly because of my exposure to this website.

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Maybe I just wash really thoroughly or something without knowing it, but I find that none of my fiber prints exhibit harmful residual hypo after a solid rinse, Se toning, another rinse, a 3-5 minute stint in Permawash, and then 25-30 minutes in the Salthill washer.

nsmk82 said:

if i have a TMAX concentrate in a kodak bottle, could i use a small portion and leave the rest in the kodak bottle

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That's exactly what you should do. Once diluted, the developer will have a limited life, so only dilute as needed.

The life of liquid concentrates and mixed stock solutions from powders isn't really that different, depending on the specific solution. Liquids are a bit more convenient. Fixer doesn't last forever, and all chemicals get exhausted with use. For the occasional darkroom user, it is probably best to through the working solutions out after one session, unless you are going to do more work in just a few hours. Stock solutions of developers like Dektol last about 3 months, depending on conditions. Film developers, like D-76 and Xtol, may last a bit less time. There are a few liquid concentrate film developers. Most of them have an open bottle shelf life of a few months, although HC-110 is noted for its longevity. You can get several liquid concentrate print developers, like LPD and the Ilford developers, that have about the same or slightly longer life. I don't know where you are, but in the US you can get Liquidol, an outstanding print developer with a significantly longer shelf life (and tray life) than the others. Liquid fixer concentrates have a very long (but not indefinite) life in the bottle. Fixers mixed from powders do not seem to last as long. As you become more experienced, you may want to invest in a good scale and the chemical components to mix your own solutions.

as it has already been said.The best way around these issues is to mix your own.I started this a couple of years back,enjoy it and have never looked back,and you never have to worry for your favorit developer not being sold anymore

Among the longest lasting liquid developers are Ilfotec HC and Moersch ECO 4812. They both last for years. Moersch Separol HE lasts quite long too but it needs to be filtered once in a while.