B&H not shipping chemicals anymore?

silveror0 · Nov 22, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
Is this the result of increased Big Brother interference?

It's my guess that there may be more to it than appears on the surface. Possibilities are:
1) B&H's choice of shipper who may interpret federal regs differently (or more conservatively) than other shippers.
2) Other online sources may choose shippers other than those in 1).
It wouldn't be the first time gov regs are ambiguous and open to interpretation.

A while back I queried B&H for their reasons as to why they stopped shipping HC-110, noting that their competition ships this product. Their response was not helpful (maybe even laughable):

"Thanks for your order and survey feedback. We regret your current dissatisfaction. This product is a chemical and considered hazardous material and under regulations this product cannot be shipped. It is therefore only available for in-Store pickup and can't be shipped. The other outlets are not authorized dealers and thus are not bound by theses rules.

We apologize for any inconvenience. We thank you for your patronage and look forward to you shopping with us again and giving us the opportunity to provide you with the best possible service."

If Freestyle and Adorama are not "authorized dealers", then what are they?

MattKing · Nov 22, 2016

paul ron said:
ive run into the same thing. i wanted to order tmax dev and kodak rapid fixer. they said those chemicals cant be shipped but the illford products could.

i now get my chemicals from https://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-rapid-fixer-solutions-a-and-b-for-black-and-white-film-and-paper-makes-1-1464106/_/searchString/kodak rapid fixer

they list the fixer as a hazardous material ut will ship it ground mail.

The Kodak Rapid Fixer is in two parts. The part B hardener is mainly quite concentrated sulfuric acid. Because of the hardener, the smaller sizes of the Kodak product has always been harder to get shipped than the Ilford product, which does not come with hardener.
The commercial sizes of the Kodak Rapid Fixer come packaged separately, so shipping them is actually easier.
I use the hardener as part of my toning procedures, so I'm glad to have both parts.

Ozxplorer · Nov 22, 2016

bvy said:
The timing is interesting -- the week of Black Friday and the kickoff of shopping madness.

Possibly the expectation is that this decision will drive "foot traffic" into the store? But, thinking about it, this company has also in recent history refused to ship Rodinal and Diafine. Thus, in some respect their current stance is unsurprising. Go figure... OK to truck it in but NOT OK to truck it out? Not a convincing argument at all! This is obviously a commercial decision. So, the best non-NY resident film user decision is to, from this moment forward, source product from alternative suppliers & having done so vote with their wallets - elsewhere! Fred

Larry the sailor · Nov 22, 2016

If nothing else a little heads up about the coming change might have been nice. I had several hundred bucks worth of stuff queued up in my shopping cart with B&H to place the order in the morning.
I guess us analog freaks aren't worth their effort anymore.
I've spent several thousand dollars at B&H over the last couple of years and while I can understand getting government regs stuffed down your throat requiring a change what they've done is a slap in the face of a whole bunch of people.

pentaxuser · Nov 22, 2016

If I were the likes of Ilford I'd be worried that at a time of great sales opportunities with the Pound Sterling dropping against the U.S. dollar with maybe even a bigger drop when DT makes America great again( sorry couldn't resist ) that the likes of B&H do not appear to want to accommodate the needs of customers.

If I were Ilford I'd want to find out whom amongst the big retailers in the U.S. I could rely on for making an effort to sell my products and re-direct my service to helpful retailers accordingly

pentaxuser

sepiareverb · Nov 22, 2016

Larry the sailor said:
If nothing else a little heads up about the coming change might have been nice. ....

Really. I just added on the Microphen last night because it was only $6.50, and I'd mixed up my last pack yesterday morning. I had a list of chemistry I was aiming to restock after rents came in next week. Just put that list on the card with Freestyle in case they have to stop shipping.

Makes sense about scale of business, and scale of sales, so hopefully Freestyle will remain in the game for a while. I can drive to the "super-store" but they don't always have what I need when I'm there, and the "shipping cost" for a small carrier like me is pretty prohibitive. That parking lot across the intersection is fecking ridiculous.

Ai Print · Nov 22, 2016

Kirks518 said:
I used to be a HazMat guy decades ago, and the problem I believe has to do with ORM-D and the certifications required to be able to ship it. And while they do ship ground, they also ship air, and they use different carriers (USPS & UPS, not sure if B+H uses FedEx). But, when you have as large of an operation as B+H and Adorama, it's probably more challenging to have a HazMat certified person in all the shipping locations, (I believe both B+H & Adorama have multiple warehouses they ship from) at all times, to sign off on each ORM-D package. If by mistake a chemical listed as ORM-D gets packed in a box and gets sent by air without the proper paperwork, it can be a huge fine for the shipper.

They have probably weighed the benefits (sales) vs pitfalls (potential fines), and found that from a business standpoint running the risks of shipping ORM-D's is not worth it. One or both may have already gotten hit with a fine, and that may have shut it down. Freestyle on the other hand, is relatively smaller, and as the types of product we're talking about make up a larger percentage of their gross sales, it's probably cost effective for Freestyle to have multiple (all?) shipping dept personnel certified. The good thing is that there really is no additional charge when purchasing from Freestyle because of the ORM-D shipment.

I buy from all three, and I just make sure that when I'm buying from Freestyle I load up. The difference in price doesn't bother me much, since if I had to buy it locally, the local price is double Freestyle's price (absurd).

Look at the upside - it'll give Freestyle that much more business, and keep their doors open to promote film & darkroom!

I bet it is something along these lines, but that might be lost on the audience here who seem to be best served by foot stomping and conspiracy theories.

brofkand · Nov 22, 2016

Born2Late said:
follow the money and you will be rewarded with the truth every time!

This is more true than most people are willing to admit, I think.

TheTrailTog · Nov 22, 2016

Ai Print said:
I bet it is something along these lines, but that might be lost on the audience here who seem to be best served by foot stomping...

Not lost on me at all. Call it what you want, but I'm "foot stomping" out of disappointed in B&H. With a company that size I can imagine dealing with shipping regulations would present a lot of logistical issues. However, given the high prices that local retailers are selling supplies for, and even the increased pricing of Freestyle, I'm sure that there was enough wiggle room in pricing to help offset the changes needed to accommodate those regulations and still allow B&H to be plenty competitive.

Taylor.Nicholas · Nov 22, 2016

Just found this forum after I spoke with someone at B&H regarding this sudden change. Seriously all I wanted was a package of Xtol...I know they stopped shipping C41 powder chemicals, and I thought okay fine. Now this!? Without a single word of warning for such a sudden and drastic change to policy, leaving loyal customers let down and sour. My entire university photo department uses B&H and Freestyle for our black and white and color chemicals. Guess it's clear they don't want our business. Don't worry, I can take my analog and digital business elsewhere. Unacceptable business practice. Not that it matters, I already knew changes were coming when they hid the "darkroom" and "film" section deep in the website menu compared to where it used to be. It's too easy for them to silence the analog photographers left in the room, because they don't need us, an ugly truth.

Larry the sailor · Nov 22, 2016

I'd be perfectly accepting of a reasonable price increase to go along with an increased cost of doing business, that's business. But, when an outfit like B&H makes a move that cuts off their customers with no warning like they did with this, that is pretty sucky service to loyal customers.
Prior to this B&H was my go-to for 99% of my photography spending. I'll be seriously rethinking that.

faberryman · Nov 22, 2016

If it is a shipping issue, I would be interested to know what new regulation went into effect today that was not in effect yesterday, if any. Then I would know whether to stomp my feet at B&H or the regulators. Somehow these chemicals are being shipped from the factory to B&H and other retailers, including the few remaining brick and mortar retailers across this great land of ours.

mshchem · Nov 22, 2016

FREE SHIPPING, chemicals are heavy low priced and a pain to deal with. IF B&H would charge for shipping chemicals then they would be Freestyle. They don't want to fiddle with it. I would be amazed if all of darkroom together amounts to more than 1% of their business.

Best Mike

ChrisPlatt · Nov 22, 2016

Ozxplorer said:
Possibly the expectation is that this decision will drive "foot traffic" into the store?

If so it won't work in my case.
I'm a short subway ride away from B&H but I doubt I'll ever darken their door again.

Ozxplorer said:
So, the best non-NY resident film user decision is to, from this moment forward,
source product from alternative suppliers & having done so vote with their wallets - elsewhere!

The same decision has been reached by this NYC resident as well.

For years B&H has continued to marginalize film users, so much so that
it's no longer worth a visit to their store, even for those who live nearby.

I'd much rather patronize a seller like Freestyle who continues to support film photography,
even if their prices are a few cents more. There's something beyond the bottom line!

Chris

faberryman · Nov 22, 2016

My own theory is that there is a guy in shipping that has a serious grievance with his employer, and is driving up shipping charges to get back at him. I ordered three 12x15 Paterson darkroom trays, and instead of stacking them and shipping them in one box with the rest of the stuff I ordered, he shipped them individually wrapped in three boxes, with an over large fourth box with the rest of the miscellaneous items I included to get over the $49 free shipping threshold. I think it is only one guy, so it doesn't qualify as a conspiracy, and I am laughing not stomping my feet.

sepiareverb · Nov 22, 2016

mshchem said:
FREE SHIPPING, chemicals are heavy low priced and a pain to deal with. IF B&H would charge for shipping chemicals then they would be Freestyle. They don't want to fiddle with it. I would be amazed if all of darkroom together amounts to more than 1% of their business.

Best Mike

I just ordered 6 Liters of liquid chemistry and a pack of Microphen powder from Freestyle. $15 cross country shipping from CA to VT. I suspect B&H has plenty good margins overall to cover their free shipping, or they'd not have implemented it a few years ago. It would cost me more than $15 to drive down to NYC and pick it up, the parking alone would be $15.

mshchem · Nov 22, 2016

Unique Photo, They have everything from soup to nuts, Film, paper and chemistry. I get REAL Flexicolor C-41 from them NO case quantity min. order, if you want 5 liter kit of C-41 developer you can but it, no case quantity nonsense.
Best Mike

mshchem · Nov 22, 2016

faberryman said:
My own theory is that there is a guy in shipping that has a serious grievance with his employer, and is driving up shipping charges to get back at him. I ordered three 12x15 Paterson darkroom trays, and instead of stacking them and shipping them in one box with the rest of the stuff I ordered, he shipped them individually wrapped in three boxes, with an over large fourth box with the rest of the miscellaneous items I included to get over the $49 free shipping threshold. I think it is only one guy, so it doesn't qualify as a conspiracy, and I am laughing not stomping my feet.

Good point, they had a big dust up with the warehouse workers. I ordered a 16x20 box of 50 sheets of color paper. The box was enormous, paper was like 75 bucks. If you buy something used or from the actual store and a regular stock item total comes to 50 bucks you get two separate boxes. I still think the biggest driver is cost and liability. It just isn't their business anymore.
Best Mike

paul ron · Nov 22, 2016

Taylor.Nicholas said:
Just found this forum after I spoke with someone at B&H regarding this sudden change. Seriously all I wanted was a package of Xtol...I know they stopped shipping C41 powder chemicals, and I thought okay fine. Now this!? Without a single word of warning for such a sudden and drastic change to policy, leaving loyal customers let down and sour. My entire university photo department uses B&H and Freestyle for our black and white and color chemicals. Guess it's clear they don't want our business. Don't worry, I can take my analog and digital business elsewhere. Unacceptable business practice. Not that it matters, I already knew changes were coming when they hid the "darkroom" and "film" section deep in the website menu compared to where it used to be. It's too easy for them to silence the analog photographers left in the room, because they don't need us, an ugly truth.

the darkroom section of B&H has dropped to one shelf of stuff n most everything you want inst there anymore.. it has to be ordered.

Yeah I remember DOS n the first version of windoze no one wanted.

put on your seat belts kids.

Ai Print · Nov 22, 2016

Taylor.Nicholas said:
Just found this forum after I spoke with someone at B&H regarding this sudden change. Seriously all I wanted was a package of Xtol...I know they stopped shipping C41 powder chemicals, and I thought okay fine. Now this!? Without a single word of warning for such a sudden and drastic change to policy, leaving loyal customers let down and sour. My entire university photo department uses B&H and Freestyle for our black and white and color chemicals. Guess it's clear they don't want our business. Don't worry, I can take my analog and digital business elsewhere. Unacceptable business practice. Not that it matters, I already knew changes were coming when they hid the "darkroom" and "film" section deep in the website menu compared to where it used to be. It's too easy for them to silence the analog photographers left in the room, because they don't need us, an ugly truth.

Our photo dept. uses them too and will continue to for things that we can still get, business is business and within our teaching programs, we strive to mentor our students in a way that teaches them to be pragmatic and business like when it comes to happenings like these and then when to let emotions free in order to steer their visual voice.

I see a lot of the usual tantrums being thrown here and just like any other woe is me centric topic, some heady speculation. It is what it is folks, it's business and unless it is a mom & pop operation with an utterly transparent presence on a site like this, we are simply not privy to all the nuances of why things go down the way they do.

I'll continue to use B&H for what I use them for and find other suppliers for what are super niche products in a competitive world of retail / wholesale / online order fulfillment.

But the last thing I am going to do is take this personally.

bvy · Nov 22, 2016

mshchem said:
Unique Photo, They have everything from soup to nuts, Film, paper and chemistry.

They even sell toothpaste. (Seriously.)

Ai Print · Nov 22, 2016

mshchem said:
Unique Photo, They have everything from soup to nuts, Film, paper and chemistry. I get REAL Flexicolor C-41 from them NO case quantity min. order, if you want 5 liter kit of C-41 developer you can but it, no case quantity nonsense.
Best Mike

Just for kicks, I put 20 each of Xtol, Dektol and Fixer in the basket at both Unique and Freestyle to see what shipping would be. Freestyle was $40 to my address buried in the mountains and Unique was $74.

sepiareverb · Nov 22, 2016

Ai Print said:
..the audience here who seem to be best served by foot stomping and conspiracy theories.

Foot stomping? I don't think so. This is one of the top two players in the market completely dropping out, without warning. There is surprise and worry that our other suppliers will follow suit. Moving from twenty years of having anything at my door in two days to a week or ten day plus delivery time is a change I will need to keep on top of for a while. Especially since I can't get anything photographic locally. Seriously, not even a roll of 35mm color print film.

paul ron said:
the darkroom section of B&H has dropped to one shelf of stuff n most everything you want inst there anymore.. it has to be ordered.

Sounds like even a drive to the "super-store" is a gamble these days. I've not been in about five years, when I last needed Glacial Acetic Acid. I bought three gallons.

adelorenzo · Nov 22, 2016

Canadians: this is a good opportunity to switch to businesses like Argentix (an APUG sponsor) and Beau Photo. IME they compete well on prices and no worries about shipping across the border. Also carry a good selection of products.

bambiwallace · Nov 22, 2016

at our school we have been using sprint chemistry for over thirty years. I like it very much for the following reasons: it works well, it is cheaper than either Kodak or ilford, however, I do not know the shipping cost for smaller quantities, it's all liquid and very easy to mix. they are also a great company to deal with. I only wish they still made color chemistry but that has been long gone. sprintsystems.com they are located in rhode island.

B&H not shipping chemicals anymore?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency