B&H (Dumping?) Fujichrome close date. Reason for Ektachrome Delay?

mshchem · Jun 7, 2018

B&H has got A LOT of close date Fuji reversal films on sale. Mostly 35mm. I'm naturally suspicious.

Anyone think this is Fuji getting rid of stock, Provia F some Velvia, before Ektachrome debuts???

What I ordered was claimed to be 05/2018 exp. date online, when I got it in two separate shipments, a week apart, it was 08/2018, date covered with a B&H Special sticker.

ACROS now Provia F that's my conspiracy theory. Maybe Fuji is throwing a lifeline to Eastman. Fuji wants out of film but doesn't want to be the villain that killed slides???

Wallendo · Jun 7, 2018

It appears that B&H has had trouble selling their stock of Velvia and Provia. This doesn't bode well for the future of E-6 sales.

If my fridge wasn't full, I would pick up 10 rolls or so. I stocked up when B&H had a great deal on Provia back in December.

destroya · Jun 7, 2018

and just two days ago they raised prices on all the fuji 120 slide film, as well as 120 ektar and 120 tmax 400, which went up by almost 30%. they are now one of the most expensive film retailers of the large ones. adorama followed suit the next day.

mshchem · Jun 7, 2018

Dollar is weak, Fuji raises prices, Kodak Alaris piles on they pay their owners in Pound Sterling which is higher in comparison. Stuff is starting to happen. I bought 25 rolls of 35mm Provia F . I still like slide shows. Already have 120 stocked in freezer. Hasselblad slides

dscottjorgenson · Jun 8, 2018

On the other hand, on May 28 I ordered both Velvia 50 and 100 in 120 format from Adorama.

- Velvia 100 (120 format) was in-stock and shipped immediately. A few days later, while tracking my order, I happened to notice that meanwhile Adorama had gone out-of-stock with this same film, and had backordered it. When my shipment arrived, I noted with interest that each roll was expiration-dated July 2019. Very fresh, even though it must have been close to their last stock on-hand before before they subsequently ran out. (They are now back in-stock, as of yesterday, incidentally.)

- Meanwhile, Velvia 50 (120 format) was out-of-stock and backordered at the time I ordered it. They finally got some in yesterday, and my order shipped. Its not arrived yet so too early to tell what expiration date I'll receive.

Both of these factors lean against the thesis that the big US film retailers can't move their Fuji E-6 - at least w/r/t Velvia in the 120 format. On the contrary, to me it looks like they're doing fine. Raising prices too (about 15% at Adorama and B&H last week, as others here have noted.)

Agulliver · Jun 8, 2018

If B&H are trying to shift short dated and outdated stock then it means they have been unable to sell it.

If other retailers have fresh stock, it means they've either managed their purchasing better or they're having more success selling it.

All this means is that B&H have a fridge full of Fuji reversal film they couldn't sell in the timeframe they expected.

Lachlan Young · Jun 8, 2018

Or it means that at some point in the last year or so, there was a potential drop off in the supply chain, B&H put in more stock to cover the gap, the gap has now been filled & the extra stock now needs sold off. AG had the same situation here a few months ago & were selling off some Velvia. Remember too that part of the reason it took a while for all the defective Kodak backing paper rolls to clear was because some of the big retailers had overstock to tide them through any supply blips.

guangong · Jun 8, 2018

I don’t know what it means because years ago B&H would sell near outdated films at discount. We can only speculate about the unknown.

trendland · Jun 8, 2018

mshchem said:
B&H has got A LOT of close date Fuji reversal films on sale. Mostly 35mm. I'm naturally suspicious.

Anyone think this is Fuji getting rid of stock, Provia F some Velvia, before Ektachrome debuts???

What I ordered was claimed to be 05/2018 exp. date online, when I got it in two separate shipments, a week apart, it was 08/2018, date covered with a B&H Special sticker.

ACROS now Provia F that's my conspiracy theory. Maybe Fuji is throwing a lifeline to Eastman. Fuji wants out of film but doesn't want to be the villain that killed slides???

Good idea - but pls. see it different :
The reason (one of further) of Ektachrome revival is the highest pricing of Fuji.
Meanwhile I doubt a bit if Ektachrome can be cheaper than todays Fuji price list.
AND the reason of B&H's special price
(I followed it some month ago)
is bad calculation of B&H........

B&H calculated their demand in a wrong way.

But at last one issue is from interest :
Was the reason of B&H calculation inspired due to cheap offers from Fuji?

WHY .....

with regards

PS : Overproduced Fuji E6 ????
Massive leck of demand ?????
End of cooperation with Agfa Photo ????

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2018

Wallendo said:
It appears that B&H has had trouble selling their stock of Velvia and Provia. This doesn't bode well for the future of E-6 sales.

If my fridge wasn't full, I would pick up 10 rolls or so. I stocked up when B&H had a great deal on Provia back in December.

E-6 is already in terminal decline. This is just another step along the way.

Agulliver · Jun 8, 2018

RattyMouse said:
E-6 is already in terminal decline. This is just another step along the way.

Mr. Optimism

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2018

Agulliver said:
Mr. Optimism

My opinion hardly differs from most here. E6 has been in decline for many, many years. Few would argue against that.

faberryman · Jun 8, 2018

I would suggest that those that like shooting Velvia stock up while the price is low. Hate to see a repeat of the ACROS affair, where the film disappears the day after the announcement that it has been discontinued. Ektachome, if and when it reaches the market, will not be a substitute for Velvia.

I gave up shooting slides a long time ago. I think digital color at 16MP and up gives a better image than scanned transparency, at least for 35mm. I found that out when I scanned my Kodachromes with a dedicated film scanner. YMMV.

BrianShaw · Jun 8, 2018

Agulliver said:
Mr. Optimism

Mr Reality... there is enough information to support that point... and it’s been true for about a decade.

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2018

faberryman said:
I would suggest that those that like shooting Velvia stock up while the price is low. Hate to see a repeat of the ACROS affair, where the film disappears the day after the announcement that it has been discontinued. Ektachome, if and when it reaches the market, will not be a substitute for Velvia.

I gave up shooting slides a long time ago. I think digital color at 16MP and up gives a better image than scanned transparency, at least for 35mm. I found that out when I scanned my Kodachromes with a dedicated film scanner. YMMV.

Very good advice. The rate at which Acros disappeared was stunning. There was literally 1 day to get your order in and then it was all over. One single day.

I never, ever shoot E6 film so its disappearance will do nothing to me. But to those who love E6 film, order NOW.

mshchem · Jun 8, 2018

I would think that B&H manages their inventory well. Who know why there is an abundance. Fuji may have had a distributor that needed to move a lot of film in a hurry. B&H can do that. Anything is possible.

As for the end of E6? I think slides may become my go to for color snaps. I don't want a bunch of prints. I still like to make RA-4, print my own, really love it. RA-4 is probably on it's last legs. Every retail place other than a camera store that I know is a dry minilab mostly Fuji.

I have projectors and scanners. I love reversal as each frame is a finished work. I hope it all stays around.

Good luck to EK,Ferrania, and Fuji

Lachlan Young · Jun 8, 2018

mshchem said:
RA-4 is probably on it's last legs. Every retail place other than a camera store that I know is a dry minilab mostly Fuji.

Doubt it. There are multiple products in Fuji's range alone that are not even finished in sizes for minilabs - but are for Lambdas etc. That's where the market still is. Widest roll a minilab takes is 12", the 30/50/72" rolls have to have a market somewhere... There's at least two labs I know of in London who optically print on the 72" roll as a standard offering.

I'd also point out that a relatively rural state in the Midwest without a significant international art/ publishing/ advertising market is not the yardstick to judge the health of RA4 by - if Ilford can sell enough digital FB paper to make it worth their while, I'd suggest that the serious C-print market is still decently sized, but not as overwhelming as it was.

Poisson Du Jour · Jun 8, 2018

mshchem said:
As for the end of E6? I think slides may become my go to for color snaps. I don't want a bunch of prints. I still like to make RA-4, print my own, really love it. RA-4 is probably on it's last legs. Every retail place other than a camera store that I know is a dry minilab mostly Fuji

Not probably, but actually it is. The machines are now quite old and costly to maintain, with the cost of chemicals and permeating odours two of the most serious complaints I have been briefed of at two labs (now just one) remaining who use RA-4 as one of three offerings (the other two being giclee up to 3.4 metres in width and traditional RA-4 darkroom but for which the client must supply their own chemistry). Also no new machines are being made; today old Fuji and Kodak Pegasus and Lambda machines are the most common. Kodak's 1994-vintage printers are the ones that are falling off by the wayside (Kodak long ago stopped providing parts and servicing) as labs migrate wholly to giclee. This is not such a bad thing given the considerably wider gamut, easier technical feed from post and a much wider breadth of media to print on, which in turn means the media can be matched to the image much better than 2 or 3 types available in RA-4. My last RA-4 prints were produced on 23rd May; I have migrated to giclee now with almost indistunguishable results when the two different print types are held side by side (raw or framed). The continued availability of media for RA-4 machines isn't a revelation, or guaranteed. Even as a 3-day-a-week lab rat, I don't see long queues of photographers lining up for RA-4.

Lachlan Young said:
if Ilford can sell enough digital FB paper to make it worth their while, I

I am unsure what this refers to, as FB media cannot be used in wet RA-4 machines; all of the the media for this RA-4 is plastic-based. Darkroom wet RA-4 might be another matter.

mshchem · Jun 9, 2018

Lachlan Young said:
Doubt it. There are multiple products in Fuji's range alone that are not even finished in sizes for minilabs - but are for Lambdas etc. That's where the market still is. Widest roll a minilab takes is 12", the 30/50/72" rolls have to have a market somewhere... There's at least two labs I know of in London who optically print on the 72" roll as a standard offering.

I'd also point out that a relatively rural state in the Midwest without a significant international art/ publishing/ advertising market is not the yardstick to judge the health of RA4 by - if Ilford can sell enough digital FB paper to make it worth their while, I'd suggest that the serious C-print market is still decently sized, but not as overwhelming as it was.

Iowa is the cultural center of the Universe! . But you certainly have a better view of the highend print market. I see a huge potential for the Ilford panchromatic black and white papers. Museums and collectors want silver fiber base prints. Labs with RGB LED printers can take full advantage of the Ilford Galerie Silver offering . I hope you are correct about RA4. I still enjoy making my own color prints. I'm pretty sure the economy of RA4 makes sense in large operations. I think it will take the amateur market to keep it alive. The only cut sheets left in USA is Fuji CA. Nice paper.

mshchem · Jun 9, 2018

BTW, the Ilford panchromatic papers for digital exposure are processed with black and white chemistry not RA4,

Lachlan Young · Jun 9, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
I am unsure what this refers to, as FB media cannot be used in wet RA-4 machines; all of the the media for this RA-4 is plastic-based. Darkroom wet RA-4 might be another matter.

It's not an RA4 paper, but it's a specialty BW paper really only meant for exposure in a Lambda etc before processing in a Colenta/ Kreonite etc or by hand - point being, there's probably barely a dozen labs worldwide who use it, yet that's enough for Ilford to make a fairly complex panchromatic variant of Galerie for that market.

lantau · Jun 9, 2018

I'd wager that most RA4 materials are used in large centralised facilities. People online order RA4 prints from their digital snaps and the very popular photo books can be made from RA4 material or normal printers.

Minilabs are used by the few shops who managed to occupy the niche left by the general demise of the rest of them. Those places still care about offering the process and their customer are the few people who care about wet prints. I expect that the others, who only offer the service because they have always done so will rapidly go away.

I don't think the future of RA4 will depend on the existence of minilabs but on people still ordering online the occasional RA4 print or glossy photo book of only their most cherished photos. The high volume caused by every film being printed is long gone and the market has adjusted. And lets face it, one of the key features for the masses to embrace digicams was that it got rid of the need for annoying physical prints.

(Just for clarification: I have come to appreciate prints by having started wet printing in my own darkroom two years ago. I still wouldn't want small commercial prints of every single one of my analog and digital pictures.)

B.S.Kumar · Jun 10, 2018

In reply to a question here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fs-fresh-fuji-film-from-japan.159847
I asked a couple of my suppliers to let me know the expiration dates on their current stock of Fuji reversal film.
One of my suppliers replied with this information:

Velvia 50: 35mm: 2019/08 120: 2019/12 4x5: 2019/04 8x10: 2019/04
Velvia 100: 35mm: 2020/03 120: 2020/05 4x5: 2020/04 8x10: 2019/11
Provia 100: 35mm: 2020/02 120: 2020/05 4x5: 2019/12 8x10: 2020/05

Velvia 50 has always been a smaller volume product, so these dates are not surprising. Last year I had delays of up to 6 weeks for Velvia 50 8x10. I think (and hope) that there should be no disruptions for the next year or so.

Kumar

AgX · Jun 11, 2018

lantau said:
I'd wager that most RA4 materials are used in large centralised facilities. People online order RA4 prints from their digital snaps and the very popular photo books can be made from RA4 material or normal printers.

Yes, there are industrial labs who use both silver-halide paper and ink-jet papers, but some only use ink-jet.

It is amazing to see an industrial RA-4 printer cranking out paper from several rolls simultaneously.

MultiFormat Shooter · Jun 11, 2018

B.S.Kumar said:
I asked a couple of my suppliers to let me know the expiration dates on their current stock of Fuji reversal film.

Thanks! Sounds like we're safe for the time being.

B&H (Dumping?) Fujichrome close date. Reason for Ektachrome Delay?

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