AZO...what IS it???

gandolfi · Oct 9, 2005

yes! that's right.

I have NO clue. I asked mt photographic dealer, and he had never heard of it..

photographic paper with almost only blue sensitivity? only for contact printing?

is it accessible in Europe? (forget Denmark; I have...)

why all the hype? why is it supposedly so great?
forgive me, but Ihave to know - my ignorance is ruining my sleep....

David Brown · Oct 9, 2005

Well, here's a start:

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/Azo_Main.html

Ole · Oct 9, 2005

It's a paper. Since the emulsion contains only siver chloride (just like the POP paper), it's too slow for enlarging. But it's faster than POP.

It's thin.

It has very low contrast (usually called "extremely long scale"), although not as low as POP.

The one source is Michael A. Smith.

As to the hype - search me

I have seen great prints on Azo, and poor ones too. I have seen good prints on Azo that I think I could have printed better on a "traditional" paper, but that's almost heresy.

Daniel Lawton · Oct 9, 2005

Apparently its an excellent, unique and favored paper among fine art printers which is why Kodak killed it. You can't go displaying B+W contact prints with digital inkjet prints side by side or else no one would buy Easyshares now would they?

gandolfi · Oct 9, 2005

Daniel Lawton said:
Apparently its an excellent, unique and favored paper among fine art printers which is why Kodak killed it. You can't go displaying B+W contact prints with digital inkjet prints side by side or else no one would buy Easyshares now would they?

it is the word "apparently" I am after.....

maybe I should just stick with my beloved liquid emulsions..

(or Kentmere Art Classic...)

Jorge · Oct 9, 2005

gandolfi said:
it is the word "apparently" I am after.....

maybe I should just stick with my beloved liquid emulsions..

(or Kentmere Art Classic...)

In the hands of someone that knows how to use it, it is a beautiful paper if you are curious you should give it a try.

Daniel, thanks for the chuckle....

Daniel Grenier · Oct 9, 2005

Azo was the oldest paper in production until Big Yellow killed it this year and was made non-stop since the late 1800s. It is for contact printing, mainly, but it can be enlarged using a special light source. It is a silver chloride paper available in single weight and in grades 2 or 3 in 8x10 or 20x24 only. Not much in the way of options there. However, when used in Amidol with a properly exposed and processed negative, this paper is quite simply phenomenal and without peers amongst silver papers. Michael A Smith is currently working on a replacement silver chloride paper but till then, there is enough stock left over from the final run to last a few years.

Check out michaelandpaula.com for more details.

brent8927 · Oct 9, 2005

I tried out AZO for a while but I found all my prints came out much nicer on my traditional choice- Ilford Warmtone paper. I also really didn't enjoy using AZO, I don't like the single weight at all and englarging negatives wasn't much fun either... The amidol also stained the darkroom floor... though unfortunately (perhaps fortunately!) it was the school's darkroom.

AZO is supposed to have a tonal scale about as long (or is it a bit longer?) than platinum, and it is supposed to print very nicely in the shadows (whereas platinum's strength is supposed to be in the highlights).

Anyway, it's definetly worth a try; you might discover it's the right material for you. B&H still sells AZO, so if you have to buy film and other stuff, just go ahead and order a box of AZO too.

Ole · Oct 9, 2005

Daniel Grenier said:
Azo was the oldest paper in production until Big Yellow killed it this year and was made non-stop since the late 1800s. ...

Sorry, but the oldest paper is Chicago Albumen Works' POP. Still in production.

gandolfi · Oct 9, 2005

brent8927 said:
I tried out AZO for a while but I found all my prints came out much nicer on my traditional choice- Ilford Warmtone paper. I also really didn't enjoy using AZO, I don't like the single weight at all and englarging negatives wasn't much fun either... The amidol also stained the darkroom floor... though unfortunately (perhaps fortunately!) it was the school's darkroom.

AZO is supposed to have a tonal scale about as long (or is it a bit longer?) than platinum, and it is supposed to print very nicely in the shadows (whereas platinum's strength is supposed to be in the highlights).

Anyway, it's definetly worth a try; you might discover it's the right material for you. B&H still sells AZO, so if you have to buy film and other stuff, just go ahead and order a box of AZO too.

well - you seem to forget that I am from DK.....

the terms "B&H" JC or other abbreviations doesn't ring any bells to me..
they are not here..

and If I have to order from US then I have to deal with VAT (moms in danish) and taxes..
hmm...

Photo Engineer · Oct 9, 2005

A few facts are in order.

Azo paper is not strictly a pure chloride emulsion. It contains other halides.

Papers like this have been made by many companies besides Eastman Kodak. Agfa Lupex paper comes to mind.

There is nothing really particular about the curve or tone of an Azo print. It is the combination of several factors including the use of very large format negatives, long exposure times, Amidol development and etc that bring out the features of this type of paper.

As for it being manufactured non-stop, well that is not strictly true either. The formula has undergone several revisions over the years, so it is not exactly the same paper as originally produced years ago. In addition, Azo paper was one of the smallest runners of all of the Kodak B&W paper products notwithstanding its popularity with a small segment of the conventional high end photographers using large formats. It was one of the biggest money losers on the roster.

And, BTW, it is also one of the easiest emulsions to make in the home photographic laboratory. I can duplicate it more easily than any other emulsion with respect to speed and curve shape. Raw stock keeping, reciprocity failure and latent image keeping are another matter.

Finding a suitable single weight baryta stock to coat the emulsion on is also difficult in todays environment. No one wants to make FB Baryta papers anymore.

PE

pelerin · Oct 9, 2005

Ole said:
Sorry, but the oldest paper is Chicago Albumen Works' POP. Still in production.

I think this is matter of POV. While POP as a category of product certainly predates the introduction of AZO, Chicago Albumen Works certainly does not, ...of course Kodak used to make a nice POP paper. Perhaps it would be more reasonable to say that AZO was the oldest continuously commercially available paper.
Celac.

brent8927 · Oct 9, 2005

gandolfi said:
well - you seem to forget that I am from DK.....

the terms "B&H" JC or other abbreviations doesn't ring any bells to me..
they are not here..

and If I have to order from US then I have to deal with VAT (moms in danish) and taxes..
hmm...

Sorry! B&H is a large photo retailer in New York, but they sell over the internet. I'm not sure about how VAT works, but maybe a fellow APUGer could order the paper for you and then mail it to you as a gift? Does the VAT still apply (and is that considered legal!?)

Wayne · Oct 9, 2005

Photo Engineer said:
Finding a suitable single weight baryta stock to coat the emulsion on is also difficult in todays environment. No one wants to make FB Baryta papers anymore.

PE

And no one wants it in single weight either, so maybe users will have to settle for compromise. I think people use Azo despite it being single weight, not because of it. Me, I'm going to sit on this box in my freezer for 30-40 years and then ebay here I come.

Alex Hawley · Oct 9, 2005

I asked the same thing a couple years ago. The result was I got hopelessly addicted to Azo and contact printing.

This question pops up every so often. Here's two threads where I volunteered to send an example print around to several members:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

In the one case, I made two identical prints, one on Azo, one on Ilford MG IV. The concensus of the viewers was that the Azo print had a noticeable edge in overall tonality, scale, and brilliance. Not to belittle Ilford any. If I didn't have azo, I could be quite content to contact print on MG IV.

I can't afford to send out prints free gratis anymore for comparison, so if someone wants to see one first hand, I will gladly sell one for a very reasonable price. Print trades are also welcomed.

Like everything in photography, its all a matter of what works best for you. I still have an enlarger and still print a few enlargements, but for me, Azo is everything the legend says it is. As far as paper weight is concerned, I quickly aclimated to the single weight and now prefer it to double weight. I think Ansel Adams started the myth about double weight being superior. I don't see anything superior about it.

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 9, 2005

Like Alex, I prefer single weight papers. I find that I prefer them to double weight papers - always have.

I also find that my Azo prints have a noticeable edge in overall tonality, scale, and brilliance whe compared to contact prints made from the same negatives on other silver papers.

gandolfi · Oct 10, 2005

Alex Hawley said:
I asked the same thing a couple years ago. The result was I got hopelessly addicted to Azo and contact printing.

This question pops up every so often. Here's two threads where I volunteered to send an example print around to several members:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

In the one case, I made two identical prints, one on Azo, one on Ilford MG IV. The concensus of the viewers was that the Azo print had a noticeable edge in overall tonality, scale, and brilliance. Not to belittle Ilford any. If I didn't have azo, I could be quite content to contact print on MG IV.

I can't afford to send out prints free gratis anymore for comparison, so if someone wants to see one first hand, I will gladly sell one for a very reasonable price. Print trades are also welcomed.

Like everything in photography, its all a matter of what works best for you. I still have an enlarger and still print a few enlargements, but for me, Azo is everything the legend says it is. As far as paper weight is concerned, I quickly aclimated to the single weight and now prefer it to double weight. I think Ansel Adams started the myth about double weight being superior. I don't see anything superior about it.

you've done great, alex.
I just got a PM from another member that wants to send me a couple of examples...
how great is that?

about the weight. I LOVE double weight - and even more triple weight.
when I use liquid emulsion I use at least 240g's paper, but prefer 600g...

(takes a lot of rinsing, though.....)

skillian · Oct 10, 2005

Agreed on the issue of single versus double weight. When I first began using Azo, I thought it was going to be a problem. I soon realized that the only real problems were my own misconceptions and habits. Today, I don't have a preference one way or the other. I'm used to single weight paper and don't even think about it when I print on Azo. In fact, I enlarge so infrequently nowadays that double weight seems thick and heavy. I now realize that none of this has anything to do with making fine pictures, it's all just semantics.

removed account4 · Oct 10, 2005

i loveprinting with azo - - its the only paper i can expose while wearing sunglasses

- john

Donald Miller · Oct 10, 2005

jnanian said:
i loveprinting with azo - - its the only paper i can expose while wearing sunglasses

- john

John,
You forgot the incredible tan that your wife and the kids admire.

Photo Engineer · Oct 10, 2005

A quick comment on single weight FB paper.

It becomes very fragile when wet during the coating process and very easy to tear. When hand coating on SW FB it is very subject to creasing and bending causing defects.

Therefore, even if anyone could exactly duplicate the Azo emulsion, coating it remains a problem on SW FB even if available. I have gotten samples of SW FB and DW FB to test, but they are becoming rather rare items.

It may be that future Azo work-alike papers will have to be DW or RC unfortunately.

PE

Wayne · Oct 10, 2005

Well it certainly wont be RC (get your RC Michael Smith prints here!) and for most users DW will not be unfortunate at all. Heck maybe we can have more than one weight-no, that would be too good.

removed account4 · Oct 10, 2005

Donald Miller said:
John,
You forgot the incredible tan that your wife and the kids admire.

and they thought it was yardwork i was doing

AZO...what IS it???

gandolfi

David Brown

Ole

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Daniel Lawton

gandolfi

Jorge

Daniel Grenier

brent8927

Ole

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gandolfi

Photo Engineer

pelerin

brent8927

Wayne

Alex Hawley

Tom Hoskinson

gandolfi

skillian

removed account4

Donald Miller

Photo Engineer

Wayne

removed account4

AZO...what IS it???

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