Aviphot from India

[polyglot]

Hi,

I just bought a couple of those 60m rolls of 70mm Aviphot 200 from the eBay seller in India. The film arrived quickly and really well packaged but I have some concerns... The labels on the cans are blatantly photoshopped and fake (ie scanned, coarsely cleaned up and re-printed). They're meant to be 60m rolls but they're in very large rubber cylinders about 210mm diameter so the film roll is much smaller than the can, and they're filled with foam packing. The canisters were sealed with black electrical tape (fine) but they have a kind of gap that looks like it might have once been a seal, now removed. The roll of film inside feels to be about the same diameter as the 30m rolls of Rollei IR400 (same stuff) I bought from Maco. I did a couple of test exposures last night, and it actually looks alright - fairly mild fog, and I got probably ISO100 from it. Just a few bits snipped off and taped into 4x5 holders for a 5 minute check.

Having seen the fake labels, I now have little trust in either the age or quantity of film that I've received - though the batch number in the edge markings (037702) does match the photoshopped labels!

Has anyone else bought any of this "2012" stock? Measured the length of the film or even used up a 60m roll and got roughly the quantity they expected? Is there anyone who has used Agfa film from a rubber cylinder, and can describe to me how a fresh/legit cylinder is sealed, or what diameter of roll I should expect 60m to look like?

Asking because I want to know if I should buy more, or am I getting older/shorter rolls with a bunch of padding...

 

[Don_ih]

There is the possibility your film was partly used. You could wind off 1 meter of it to weigh and then weigh the remaining amount. The film base may be thinner than the Rollei IR400 film base.
I never bought a 60m roll. I think the rolls I bought were 45m and they came in black containers with press-on lids that were just a bit bigger than the roll.

 

[lamerko]

Hello,
my film boxes arrived as follows (real photos). I must note that the parcel arrived very quickly in Bulgaria (4-5 days), but was detained at customs and opened there (which really worried me a lot).

 

[polyglot]

There is the possibility your film was partly used. You could wind off 1 meter of it to weigh and then weigh the remaining amount. The film base may be thinner than the Rollei IR400 film base.
I never bought a 60m roll. I think the rolls I bought were 45m and they came in black containers with press-on lids that were just a bit bigger than the roll.

Yeah that's what worries me. But the canister it's in is so big that there's no way it was 60m when full - more like 300m/1000' - so there's something interesting going on.

Hello,
my film boxes arrived as follows (real photos). I must note that the parcel arrived very quickly in Bulgaria (4-5 days), but was detained at customs and opened there (which really worried me a lot).

Same. Mine look just like yours and with the same batch and roll number (nonsense!) - see the dirty marks around the expiration date and the base thickness. Someone has clearly scanned a label, cleaned it up in photoshop, printed it out and stuck it on these canisters, which is why I am worried about shenanigans.

 

[Fredrixxon]

Keep in mind, that stickers are printed on hi quality machines, with blank spaces for information that are subject to change. Text including data like batch, expiry date, cut, exact type of material - these are printed at the time of sticking the label onto canister, thus are of meaner quality and may look "blatantly photoshopped".
I used to buy 45m and 85m, film was fairly ok. And I got it untouched by customs I also have bought some aviphot in Europe and the labels and seals looked the same.

 

[koraks]

Desktop-inkjet printed labels are generally easy to distinguish from high-volume production line inkjet printed labels with a decent loupe. Often even by the naked eye.

 

[lamerko]

Same. Mine look just like yours and with the same batch and roll number (nonsense!) - see the dirty marks around the expiration date and the base thickness. Someone has clearly scanned a label, cleaned it up in photoshop, printed it out and stuck it on these canisters, which is why I am worried about shenanigans.

The labels look fine to me. Yes, there is smudging around the lettering, but keep in mind that these are blanks that are stamped directly during production. Don't let that bother you.

 

[Fredrixxon]

Lamerko, would you post closeup of that part of label with "made in Belgium"? this area looks strange indeed.

 

[polyglot]

No this is not smudging. This is very clearly a dirty scan that has been painted white with a hard circular brush in a photo editor. The circular brush is particularly evident in the gap between the bar code and "Base". Also you can see white crinkle/wear marks (presumably from where they peeled their reference sticker) in the red left of the label that are part of the scan, with identical marks showing on both my canisters and both canisters here from lamerko.

They *should* be blanks stamped at production time, but they are laser-printed. The Agfa Aviphot label looks probably real whereas the batch label is very clearly not even if you can't pick it in a photo over the internet - I did not notice in the original sale listings.

Keep in mind, that stickers are printed on hi quality machines, with blank spaces for information that are subject to change. Text including data like batch, expiry date, cut, exact type of material - these are printed at the time of sticking the label onto canister, thus are of meaner quality and may look "blatantly photoshopped".
I used to buy 45m and 85m, film was fairly ok. And I got it untouched by customs I also have bought some aviphot in Europe and the labels and seals looked the same.

Have you bought any of the 2005-era stuff? I can see a few 85m rolls of that, so if there's no fogging at that age then I might get some of those.

 

[lamerko]

Lamerko, would you post closeup of that part of label with "made in Belgium"? this area look strange indeed.

I'll take some close ups when I get home - I'm at work now

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The main thing I'd be concerned with is Customs opening the containers, or running it through a scanner, and ruining the film.

 

[polyglot]

A closeup showing brushwork:

 

[Fredrixxon]

So I took a look into my fridge
All of the stickers on my cans are dirty - with plain dirt, no print smudging, pixelated background or something like that. Having closer look at the pictures, I'm afraid you are right polyglot, this stickers suck.
There are at least half a dozen of sellers, most of them are new to me. I use to buy form B*****M*****, but now they are almost out of aviphot
Andrew, my packages haven't been opened since India, but most likely heavily x-rayed.

 

[polyglot]

The main thing I'd be concerned with is Customs opening the containers, or running it through a scanner, and ruining the film.

thankfully no problem there; the film is fine. Just slightly worried that maybe it's not the advertised length.

 

[Fredrixxon]

just looked again. My stuff is dated 2012 and 2014

 

[polyglot]

just looked again. My stuff is dated 2012 and 2014

What diameter would you say the rolls of film where when new vs how much foam padding was in the canister? Did the 85m roll fill the whole canister?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

thankfully no problem there; the film is fine. Just slightly worried that maybe it's not the advertised length.

...or maybe they gave you a bit extra! I often buy a box of 50 Timbits ( I think the Americans call them doughnut holes) for my students. I've always been a bit suspicious if they actually put 50 in the box, because they expedite my order at lightening speed. When I got to school, I counted them. There were 56! I quickly popped the 6 in my mouth

 

[Kino]

There is always the chance that the labels fell off the cans in storage or were destroyed in moving it around, so they might have made-up replacements.

Unfamiliar with aerial film, but any chance they may be respooling it from huge rolls?

Also, remember, the base is polyester and very, very thin so don't confuse acetate roll diameter with polyester.

Just a few observations/guesses...

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I've bough Aviphot from India multiple times. Twice 90m rolls, 2 40m rolls and 2 9 7/16 rolls (for 4x5 cutting). All of it has been unperforated. No problem at all.

 

[Don_ih]

Well, here's a question: how perfectly was the plastic bag folded around the film and was there a piece of tape holding it closed? The bag on mine was folded extremely neatly with a piece of tape such that it was difficult to close the container after I used some of the film (no way could I fold it back the way it was).

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

There is always the chance that the labels fell off the cans in storage or were destroyed in moving it around, so they might have made-up replacements.

Unfamiliar with aerial film, but any chance they may be respooling it from huge rolls?

Also, remember, the base is polyester and very, very thin so don't confuse acetate roll diameter with polyester.

Just a few observations/guesses...

Well there are different thickness for Aviphot. Some time ago I got hold of some Aviphot 40 on PE0 which is thinner that regular film stock. Most Aviphot sold on the bay (India) is PE1 which is thicker and close to regular film stock.

By the way only issue with thinner PE0 I had was for scanning. Difficult to keep it in place

This is my (límites) experience so YMMV.

Regards