Autochrome, Kodachrome and home made high speed films

nickandre · Mar 4, 2009

The LED idea has been discussed on another thread on Photo.net The conclusion was that it would not be optimal. Something to do with the fact that the peaks might be off or the band was too narrow. The filters are annoyingly expensive.

If I were not using the WORST scanning program/scanner combination known to man I'd probably be able to post pictures. This scanner WAS the reason I began RA4 color printing.

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 4, 2009

what type of filters/light source did you use?

nickandre · Mar 4, 2009

Just some ideas:
During the red re-exposure a reel was placed over the tail of the film. It is very faint looking and doesn't seem to contrast much in terms of "cyan" dye level with the re-exposed section. This makes me believe it was a development incineration of the cyan.

On second examination the film looks more purple. There is little contrast between the fogged and not fogged cyan dye level. Given the level of development I gave it (lots) I'm giving this to be the cause. As a test I'll shoot another roll and start with yellow developer. If I'm correct I'll get yellow film (maybe not because I'll back off the developer for round 2.)

Also there is crap on the film. Tiny dots of black crap which is insoluble in water. I don't think it's remjet though because the goop was hardened when I reloaded the film after the second color developer. I think it's goo from that developer. I know the couplers were soluble in Acetone. If I wash the film in that, will the dyes wash out too?

I used theater filters which I first used to great success on my color separations last year. They are very red and very blue, not letting through any other color of light (according to my highly scientific tests of looking through them.) I shone an incandescent flashlight through them.

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 4, 2009

sounds like what I'll be using...I have a bunch of the free sample books for lighting gels---they come with graphs of light transmission for each wavelength

nickandre · Mar 4, 2009

So for development I think first Dev would work with 5 minutes in E6 first developer @ 99 degrees. Color developments are way less than 10 minutes at 85 degrees.

Photo Engineer · Mar 4, 2009

I suggest you experiment with a B&W film to start with and try to generate positive, single color slides using this process:

MQ - whatever you choose to give a good negative.
Stop / wash
white light fog
Your special color developer for whatever conditions you find gives you good dmax.
stop
wash
bleach
wash
fix
wash
photo flo
dry

Once you find you can make a good C/M/Y positive set, then you can go ahead knowing the ballpark conditions you will need to use.

Otherwise, you are just standing in a darkroom flying blind, literally.

PE

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 6, 2009

is anyone else going to join in and experiment with kodachrome?

Q.G. · Mar 6, 2009

Alas, they don't make Kodachrome large enough to fit my cameras.

Photo Engineer · Mar 6, 2009

Remember, if anyone has a tricolor camera, they can use sheet film and then this methodology to recreate a Kodachrome positive by constructing a sandwich of the 3 separation positives.

PE

Tom Kershaw · Mar 6, 2009

Your special color developer for whatever conditions you find gives you good dmax.

This is the stage of the colour dye inclusive developer; i.e. cyan / magenta / yellows developers, and is the bleach something like a permanganate bleach for black & white or rather an E6 compatible bleach?

Tom.

Photo Engineer · Mar 6, 2009

I would use an E6 bleach.

PE

Tom Kershaw · Mar 6, 2009

The colour developer for the black & white film separation positives is C-41 plus the dye?
I've only skim read the thread so far.

Tom.

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 6, 2009

does E-6 bleach mean we should also use E-6 Fix?

didn't you mention it's important to use color bleach & color fix because of ph or something?

Photo Engineer · Mar 7, 2009

The bleach and fix in color are near neutral to cause the least damage to "weak" dyes, or those that suffer from pH changes. The color developers are as outlined before a cyan, magenta and yellow coupler added to 3 portions of any color developer. I suppose that C-41 is as good as any.

PE

Terrence Brennan · Mar 9, 2009

Three colour process

Photo Engineer said:
Remember, if anyone has a tricolor camera, they can use sheet film and then this methodology to recreate a Kodachrome positive by constructing a sandwich of the 3 separation positives.

PE

I did just that, in 1977, while a student at Ryerson Polytechnic University. It was an assignment for my third year sensitometry class. The results weren't half bad, but it was a lot of work.

nickandre · Mar 9, 2009

It's easier digitally. It was very cool when I did it. And impressive.

I'm considering adding alcohol to the developer to help with the gunk condensation.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 9, 2009

Tiberius,

Were / are you using the Rockland Polytoner product?

Tom.

nickstreme · Mar 10, 2009

GET BACK TO WORK

Photo Engineer · Mar 10, 2009

nickstreme said:
GET BACK TO WORK

Ummm, what are you doing to contribute to advancing their work?

Well, other than chide them!

PE

DK6400Brian · Mar 11, 2009

doitashimashite said:
French photographer Frédéric Mocellin seems to be well on his way recreating the autochrome technology:

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/def.html

This is my very first post on this forum. Thanks for letting me in

These new Autochromes are just beautiful and if I'm not mistaking, the very first successful achievements at all.
That alone deserves credit and a lifelong fully funded retirement.

I stand speechless.

nickandre · Mar 11, 2009

Tom,
Sorry I didn't notice your post. Yes that's what I'm using. I added the couplers straight to C41 developer. Be careful though; I have gross cyan magenta and yellow gunk all over my pitchers/reels/tank. I think I need acetone to remove it. I might try adding a solvent to the developer to prevent this like the alcohol used in the provided developer.

nickstreme said:
GET BACK TO WORK

Oh ye of little faith. I'll send you my polytoner and YOU can get back to work This is horridly time consuming and the quarter ends tomorrow before spring break starts and I need to print some more work. (the problem with being forced to shoot every weekend is that you always have a crapload of work to print and until I get a microwave to dry the fiber test strips it's going to take a while to print these things.) There hasn't been much time. I'm going to continue (after break) with the assumption that I need to reduce the CD times and see how it goes. I'll add some alcohol too. This is the "stabbing in the dark because I'm too lazy to run extensive tests" method.

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 12, 2009

interesting...I never got any weird gunk

what C41 dev are you using?

I just got a "unicolor" kit from Freestyle that I'll be playing with soon

nickstreme · Mar 12, 2009

nickandre · Mar 12, 2009

I'm using kodak c41 flexicolor replenisher which I made a working solution by diluting slightly and adding the starter.

It's terrible. It's NOT water soluble at all. I cannot remove it with my fingernail from the surface of the film. And my tank has it too. I used approx 1/3 of a liter per development and added just about a capfull of couplers per developer. It's clearly enough. Maybe too much. (that's very good news. I won't be breaking the bank) And 333ml is just enough to reach the top of the reel.

Oh. I used near constant agitation for fear of half development of the slides. That may have contributed to the issue. I'm trying the standard C41 times next and doing 1 frame at a time.

PE, do you have any kodak friends who know of how to get small quantities of K14 chemistry bought and shipped? If only I lived near Kansas...

actually the quarter ends tomorrow. That just goes to show you my clear lack of sleep

Photo Engineer · Mar 12, 2009

I cannot do anything about K14 chemistry. I can say that if you look at the K14 formulas in the patent, you will se a variety of organic solvents used to assist in dissolving the couplers and preventing problems with the coupling of developer with the dye former.

PE

Autochrome, Kodachrome and home made high speed films

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