Asahi Pentax 6x7 (1969/1976) vs Pentax 67 (1990) - which one to get?

[moodlover]

I'm in the market for a Pentax 67 (not the newest 67II) and found that I can save some money if I buy the oldest models, the Asahi 6x7s. I plan to shoot outdoor portraits in sunlight with it so I'm getting the 105mm 2.4 lens and plan to use 100, 400 and 800 speed film for 1/125s and faster exposures. I was wondering if there's anything wrong with the mirror, shutter, film winding or any of the functional mechanisms in the oldest versions that would convince me to get the 1990 version instead. Any thoughts?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'd avoid any that are so old that there is no mirror-lockup feature. That is something you need for any slower exposures. That big mirror has quite a kick to it. You tell your portrait subjects about that in advance. Hit the lockup, they blink and jitter, then just wait a moment until they
are recomposed before tripping the cable release. No big deal. Or you can, of course, shoot faster ASA films at higher speeds without the lockup, given reasonable light levels. Or if you prefer flash, it's best to get one of the leaf-shutter lenses for this camera. But for what you
plan to do there's no overriding reason to buy only the late II version, which tends to sell for way more.

 

[GRHazelton]

As a Pentax fan - 35mm and 6x4.5 - I love the brand, but I'd be concerned buying a 6x7 Pentax from between 1969 - 1976. I doubt that many amateurs bought these big boys, and thus most have probably seen some heavy professional use. Furthermore, since Pentax no longer supports my 35mm LXs, I very much doubt they support the 120 cameras. Spare parts could be a real problem.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Jillions were seemingly made, and since these don't use interchangeable backs, lots of pros bought multiple bodies. This means that very clean bodies still turn up for sale sometimes. But a problem I'm personally having at the moment with one of these older bodies - even though it looks quite clean - is that the rubber lightproof gasketing is starting to get all gummy, sticky, and crumbly. So problems can develop on older cameras which are otherwise still mechanically superb. Bodies and lenses for this system are such an incredible bargain at the moment, that I'd simply buy a spare body when in doubt. And the system really does withstand a lot of punishment. But one thing to keep in mind is that the finders for the earlier bodies won't fit the later II bodies. Lenses are no problem in this respect.

 

[mgb74]

I had one for many years. Some comments:

• It's bigger in person than it seems. I found the wood auxiliary grip almost essential for hand held use.
• MLU bodies cost more for a reason. The MLU really is useful given the size of the mirror.
• Yes, the seals get gummy - like just about any camera over 20 years old. Replacements are available and not difficult to do (both body to back and body to finder).
• Lenses, particularly longish ones, are relatively cheap.
• Eric Henderson (pentaxs.com) services the 6x7 and 67.

 

[paul ewins]

The major problem with the 6x7 is damaged gears in the film winding mechanism which leads to erratic frame spacing or total failure. This is caused by a jerky winding action, like you might use on a 35mm camera. You need to be slower and smoother with the 6x7 because of the greater drag of 120 film (with no sprocket holes you need more tension to keep it flat and then there is the extra friction of the paper backing to consider). Unfortunately there is no direct correlation between the wear on the body and the condition of the winding gears. There were allegedly improvements over time, so the newer bodies should be less susceptible to this problem.

The ideal situation would be buying locally from somebody who would let you run a couple of rolls of film through it first and have them developed so that you can assess the frame spacing and just whether it all feels smooth. If you can do that then any of the 6x7 or 67 series would be fine, although mirror lockup can be handy if you usually work from a tripod.

If you are buying on eBay or otherwise have doubtful rights of return then you should definitely look for the cleanest and newest 67 you can find. If you see something you are interested in ask the seller what the serial number is. For a 67 it should be between 4159xxx and 42xxxxx. There are a few 6x7s on eBay that have been "upgraded" to a 67 by swapping over the part of the casing that has the 6x7 or 67 engraved it, but the serial number usually tells the real story.

 

[moodlover]

I'd avoid any that are so old that there is no mirror-lockup feature. That is something you need for any slower exposures. That big mirror has quite a kick to it. You tell your portrait subjects about that in advance. Hit the lockup, they blink and jitter, then just wait a moment until they
are recomposed before tripping the cable release. No big deal. Or you can, of course, shoot faster ASA films at higher speeds without the lockup, given reasonable light levels. Or if you prefer flash, it's best to get one of the leaf-shutter lenses for this camera. But for what you
plan to do there's no overriding reason to buy only the late II version, which tends to sell for way more.

I've never used MLU in any of my cameras so I'm wondering how that works in relation to the viewfinder. If I'm looking into the viewfinder with the 105mm 2.4 at f/2.4, and the mirror goes up, wouldn't the viewfinder go black? Then I'd be unsure if I was in focus or not when I hit the shutter button or cable release, no? I definitely plan to shoot without the lockup using higher speed film. And yeah I really dont like how the late II version is double or triple the price sometimes.

I had one for many years. Some comments:

• It's bigger in person than it seems. I found the wood auxiliary grip almost essential for hand held use.
• MLU bodies cost more for a reason. The MLU really is useful given the size of the mirror.
• Yes, the seals get gummy - like just about any camera over 20 years old. Replacements are available and not difficult to do (both body to back and body to finder).
• Lenses, particularly longish ones, are relatively cheap.
• Eric Henderson (pentaxs.com) services the 6x7 and 67.

I'm considering buying the wood grip but I'm having a hard time understanding how you'd hold it and focus at the same time? I push the shutter with my right hand and focus with my left so do you have any tips, considering the wood grip is on the left?

The major problem with the 6x7 is damaged gears in the film winding mechanism which leads to erratic frame spacing or total failure. This is caused by a jerky winding action, like you might use on a 35mm camera. You need to be slower and smoother with the 6x7 because of the greater drag of 120 film (with no sprocket holes you need more tension to keep it flat and then there is the extra friction of the paper backing to consider). Unfortunately there is no direct correlation between the wear on the body and the condition of the winding gears. There were allegedly improvements over time, so the newer bodies should be less susceptible to this problem.

The ideal situation would be buying locally from somebody who would let you run a couple of rolls of film through it first and have them developed so that you can assess the frame spacing and just whether it all feels smooth. If you can do that then any of the 6x7 or 67 series would be fine, although mirror lockup can be handy if you usually work from a tripod.

If you are buying on eBay or otherwise have doubtful rights of return then you should definitely look for the cleanest and newest 67 you can find. If you see something you are interested in ask the seller what the serial number is. For a 67 it should be between 4159xxx and 42xxxxx. There are a few 6x7s on eBay that have been "upgraded" to a 67 by swapping over the part of the casing that has the 6x7 or 67 engraved it, but the serial number usually tells the real story.

I'm probably going to buy on eBay so I'll try to find a seller who has a return policy. I plan on quickly shooting some test rolls and developing the film to check out the issues you're talking about. The serial number thing is a great tip, I didn't even think someone would do something scammy like replacing the body number - thanks!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The wood grip, IIRC, can be used on either side of the camera.

 

[mgb74]

The wood grip, IIRC, can be used on either side of the camera.

Yes, it can.

You can get a focus extension to allow at least fine focus with a hand on the grip. But if really can't use the grip in one hand, focus with the 2nd hand, and press the shutter unless you have a 3rd hand.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Well, you could always kit out the grip with a cable release. Then the shutter button would be immediately at hand for your right hand. Cradle the lens barrel with your left hand for support and focus.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't have any problem hand-shooting the camera as-is, and personally see no need for the wooden handle other than as a carrying handle
as opposed to a neck strap. But these handles are common enough if you need one.

 

[theantiquematinee]

Hello. I have a Pentax 6x7 with MLU that I'm getting ready to sell if your interested. Selling it with TTL meter, 105 2.4 and 55 f4. If your interested PM me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paul ewins]

...The serial number thing is a great tip, I didn't even think someone would do something scammy like replacing the body number - thanks!

Take a look at this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pentax-6...472?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a5845db0

That's actually a really early - say 1969 or 1970 - 6x7 with the 67 cover swapped over. Still has the original serial number on the other cover though. I wouldn't blame the seller here though, who knows how long ago it happened and they have provided more than enough photos to make it clear what you are buying.

 

[sbjornda]

The wood grip, IIRC, can be used on either side of the camera.

The OEM one sure can't. It's got a middle anchor point that fits into a special slot on the left side of the camera body, just behind the lens release. The wood grip is for carrying the camera instead of a strap, but it's no good for holding the camera while shooting. For shooting, you want the standard stance of cradling the lens and focusing with the left hand and firing the shutter with the right (which works in both portrait and landscape mode).

 

[Fixcinater]

The MLU body that I have has been perfect since I picked it up. Slow, smooth winding and it's been great. Haven't used the MLU feature so I taped the switch down so it doesn't drain battery accidentally.

I have quite large hands and found the factory wooden grip unhelpful, so I run without it. 1/125 is my limit, 60 is do-able but I can't rely on it so would want to shoot multiple frames which I don't like doing. If I know it's going to be that dark, I either bring 800 speed 120 film or 35mm kit with f/1.2 or tripod and then can stop down past the "danger zone." Hence, I don't use the MLU.

 

[moodlover]

Well, you could always kit out the grip with a cable release. Then the shutter button would be immediately at hand for your right hand. Cradle the lens barrel with your left hand for support and focus.

I have a cable release but I was wondering how do I deal with it in both landscape and portrait positions? Do I just hold it between the camera and my palm with the button sticking out just enough to press it?

 

[moodlover]

Take a look at this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pentax-6...472?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a5845db0

That's actually a really early - say 1969 or 1970 - 6x7 with the 67 cover swapped over. Still has the original serial number on the other cover though. I wouldn't blame the seller here though, who knows how long ago it happened and they have provided more than enough photos to make it clear what you are buying.

Hah wow, theyre selling this where I live. I don't see anywhere in the description where the seller is even aware this happened (or maybe he is, and doesn't want to say anything).

What do you think about this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exc-Pentax-...434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a97fc2f2 - the serial number in the back appears to start with a 6, and you said it's supposed to start with a 4? I'm looking to avoid the old Asahi's 6x7 and going for the 1990 Pentax 67s instead.

 

[flavio81]

Great answers above. I'd just say that if it's a 6x7 and the winding is smooth and frame spacing is OK, then go for it!!

I would advise you to do two upgrades or purchases concerning any Pentax 6x7 or 67:

- Get a pistol grip, or the big wooden handle. The shutter (not just the mirror) has strong recoil. Thus MLU has limited utility -- important if you do macro or use long teles, i'd guess.

- Waist level finder or upgraded focusing screen or 2x viewfinder magnifier. Focusing is not so easy without some of these accesories. Note that for replacing the screen you need a technician.

Now, for the next level of upgrade: Get a technician clean the shutter speed selector contacts, and calibrate the shutter curtain brakes so the camera operates smooth and reliably.

You'll appreciate how small the Pentax is. And i'm not joking here. It is small and nimble, for a 6x7 camera. Compared to a 35mm SLR, it is a ridiculously oversized and heavy machine, of course.

 

[moodlover]

- Waist level finder or upgraded focusing screen or 2x viewfinder magnifier. Focusing is not so easy without some of these accesories. Note that for replacing the screen you need a technician.

Since I'm shooting portraits I'm definitely interested in whatever will help me land the focus on eyes. Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-A...085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463d9a77b5

I wish it wasn't $100+!

 

[flavio81]

Since I'm shooting portraits I'm definitely interested in whatever will help me land the focus on eyes. Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-A...085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463d9a77b5

I wish it wasn't $100+!

I own that magnifier. Yes, it does work, easy to use.

But i have a small complain: To remove/install the magnifier is a slow process, and you should do it whenever you put the camera in a camera bag, if you want to prevent the magnifier being knocked.

 

[ColColt]

I had two of these mostly for the purpose of shooting weddings and my assistant loaded one camera while I was shooting 220 in the other one. I used the LS lens in both 90 and 165mm as I did studio work with bridal shoots and portraits. It's hard to beat being able to sync at 125 or 250 if you desire over the snail slow 30th second with the standard lens. I had both cameras installed with a split image finder that aided focus for me much better than the standard screen.

These cameras were tough as nails. My clutzy assistant during a shoot knocked over my tripod with camera attached and it hit face first on the floor. Afraid something had gotten out of whack by the accident I just used the other one till everything was over. I took the one that took the fall and put a roll of 120 Ektachrome through it to test if anything had happened and the transparencies came back all looking good. Can't say enough about these cameras, excellent optics, super sharp and handle just like a 35mm...albeit, one on steroids.

If I were doing weddings and portrait work like I was in the 90's I'd opt for the 67II.

 

[paul ewins]

Hah wow, theyre selling this where I live. I don't see anywhere in the description where the seller is even aware this happened (or maybe he is, and doesn't want to say anything).

What do you think about this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exc-Pentax-...434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a97fc2f2 - the serial number in the back appears to start with a 6, and you said it's supposed to start with a 4? I'm looking to avoid the old Asahi's 6x7 and going for the 1990 Pentax 67s instead.

No, that's the serial number for the metered finder, not the camera. The camera serial number is on the body just behind the shutter speed dial. Unfortunately on the later 6x7 and the 67 it is black and usually too hard to read in an eBay size photo. It looks like a genuine 67, but the only differences between a late 6x7 and a 67 are on the pieces that are easily swapped.