As film production declines

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2014

And, as there are fewer and fewer products, I thought this article, as an "analog" to film production might help those who think restarting film production would be easy.

We lose technology. It vanishes people! It goes away! We can't do it anymore! These are true statements within the limitations that we can do it if it is worth it monetarily, and if we have enough time and people.

Try reading this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/quora...olog_b_5658701.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

I've seen more than my share of technology vanish.

You might like this too: http://news.yahoo.com/us-navy-practices-retrieving-orion-spacecraft-230717439.html

PE

Sal Santamaura · Aug 7, 2014

Hey Ron, stop shoving reality in people's faces. They don't like it.

gone · Aug 7, 2014

It's OK. All things are impermanent. Not recognizing that truth causes endless suffering.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 7, 2014

Thanks Ron. Read the Huff Post article, AND the following one referenced at the bottom of that article:

How NASA brought the monstrous F-1 moon rocket engine back to life

My take away, especially after the F-1 article, is that while one can't always recreate the past, one can often earn from and improve upon it. Primary thrust on the upcoming SLS system may end up being provided by upgraded LOX/kerosene engines very similar to the venerable Saturn V F-1s.

The follow-up article is all about young engineers taking an original F-1 apart just to see what made it tick, then other engineers updating that knowledge and moving forward to a new generation of design.

And in a much less dramatic conceptual sense, isn't that exactly what Ferrania is trying to do with Scotch Chrome 100 E-6 film?

Ken

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 7, 2014

We not only lose advanced technology to more advanced (or different) technology but we lose the most basic of survival knowledge. For instance, grocery stores and the warehouses that supply them have but three days supplies on hand at any given time. What will we do if something happens that interrupts those supplies for weeks or months? What will happen if the city water supply is interrupted for days or weeks? Are we supposed to count on Uncle Sam to step in? What if these problems are nation-wide overwhelming the nation's limited resources? It sure would be nice to have a productive garden and a water well with a mechanical hand pump... if we lose power too.

I'm not being facetious. I'm taking PE's post to the extreme with very basic necessities, not just photo film. The point is we lose very basic knowledge and one day it will bite us all in the behind with razor-sharp teeth.

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Thanks Ron. Read the Huff Post article, AND the following one referenced at the bottom of that article:

How NASA brought the monstrous F-1 moon rocket engine back to life

My take away, especially after the F-1 article, is that while one can't always recreate the past, one can often earn from and improve upon it. Primary thrust on the upcoming SLS system may end up being provided by upgraded LOX/kerosene engines very similar to the venerable Saturn V F-1s.

The follow-up article is all about young engineers taking an original F-1 apart just to see what made it tick, then other engineers updating that knowledge and moving forward to a new generation of design.

And in a much less dramatic conceptual sense, isn't that exactly what Ferrania is trying to do with Scotch Chrome 100 E-6 film?

Ken

Ken, I don't disagree. I feel though that there has to be some economic driving force as said above. There may not be here and then what?

PE

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2014

And a general remark!

What are we having wrt weather nowdays? I watched shelves go bare in HI as the two storms approach. I'm watching the SW of the US and the NW of the US burn. As we turn into a desert with temps in the 120F range, what are our crops going to do?

Oh well, we did it to ourselves, albeit rather unwittingly I think.

PE

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 7, 2014

PE... unwittingly? Maybe. Complacently and lazily? Definitely.

Prof_Pixel · Aug 7, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Oh well, we did it to ourselves, albeit rather unwittingly I think.

Climate change is a fact of nature. It happened long before man arrived and it will still happen long after man is gone. Expecting climate status is unrealistic.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 7, 2014

Climate change that is not our fault is just as damaging as change that is our fault. Logically however, I'd prefer the change to be our fault as much as possible. Because if it is, we can conceivably correct it. But if it isn't, we're screwed and just along for the ride.

Ken

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 7, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
Climate change is a fact of nature. It happened long before man arrived and it will still happen long after man is gone. Expecting climate status is unrealistic.

Of course... but the increase in atmospheric CO2 is FAR greater due to man-made pollution than occurs before most ice ages. That information is stored in ancient ice. Why would we rush-in a new ice age due to our ignorance? Why would we usher-in a GLOBAL ice age due to our ignorance? Every imbalance of nature spurs a necessary re-balance. This next one is likely to be beyond extreme.

Xmas · Aug 7, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
Climate change is a fact of nature. It happened long before man arrived and it will still happen long after man is gone. Expecting climate status is unrealistic.

A more exact statement is we don't have computer models of what happened 125 thousand years ago to terminate the previous warm period similar to today's.

We do have statistical models that indicate current long term temperature 'changes' (from 1605) are not the sun but CO2! The spring and fall seasons in London are shorter than they were 1600-1800 than they are1800-2000.

So we don't know what is likely to happen next or how long we have got in this warm period or even if it will finish earlier but the ice is melting...

As a homo sapian our last change was about 125k years ago.

But back to film please google monkey selfies...

trythis · Aug 7, 2014

We (humans) forgot how to make concrete for 1000+ years. The Roman ruins are still in pretty good shape where the mortar in the bricks is compared to pre-1910 structures in St Louis. They are held together with lime and sand only where newer building have cement in them!

Photo Engineer · Aug 8, 2014

Cement and pyramids! Gasp, I thought martians taught us that stuff.

AgX · Aug 8, 2014

So far change or loss of materials or technology is a matter mainly of the industry. Governments only came into the game by restricting materials or procedures.

Should there be initiatives of governments to keep older technoligy alive as fail save mechanism?

pdeeh · Aug 8, 2014

Ah but AgX, that would require longer term resource planning and thinking rather than short to medium term profit planning ... remember that most western governments have been transformed over recent decades into arms of business, serving the needs of corporations to make profit rather than the greater needs of their populace or even humanity as a whole ...

Steve Smith · Aug 8, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
My take away, especially after the F-1 article, is that while one can't always recreate the past, one can often earn from and improve upon it.

My opinion is that if people were able to do something in the past, they should be able to do it in the future.

Obviously things like material supply and economy of scale have a bearing on the practicality, but it should still be possible.

Steve.

Xmas · Aug 8, 2014

Steve Smith said:
My opinion is that if people were able to do something in the past, they should be able to do it in the future.

Obviously things like material supply and economy of scale have a bearing on the practicality, but it should still be possible.

Steve.

There is a free blad on the moon just waiting for you to collect.

Rudolph and me don't do collections.

RattyMouse · Aug 8, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
And in a much less dramatic conceptual sense, isn't that exactly what Ferrania is trying to do with Scotch Chrome 100 E-6 film?

Ken

And Impossible Project.

Curt · Aug 8, 2014

It's about time for a catastrophic thinning of the herd. Not the plague or flu this time but an Ebola like event just about the time a serum is engineered but not universally available. Between terrorism, religious wars, ignorance, and indifference how could mankind add global warming to the list. It seems like the dance card is filled up. For us older people we'll be moving off stage and I hope the upcoming generations can grasp the problems and get a hold of some solutions on how to live in accord with each other and nature.

Indeed we are along for the ride on planet Earth in more ways than one.

Truzi · Aug 8, 2014

I remember a constant criticism during the space shuttle program was NASA was, more or less, resting on it's laurels regarding manned flight, and falling behind in areas. I also read, with the recent space initiative, that retirees were being brought back to train the new engineers; knowledge was being lost.

So many people now rely on GPS its seems they can't get anywhere without it. It's a bit sad - the (once scarce) ability of the average person to read a map is almost gone; technology seems to have replaced the ability to think. I've seen many paralyzed when their cell phones could not get a connection and thus could not tell them where to go. They would not even try. These are my peers, not teens who never knew anything else.

Is anyone aware of last week's water scare in the Toledo, Ohio (Lucas County) area? Algae blooms had the potable water supply in question. It was not a good situation for the people there.

Regarding stores clearing out due to oncoming storms, and unrelated to the above postings, I think people keep less food in their homes anymore. Just a threat of an heavy snow sends droves of people in my area to the stores. While I prefer fresh food, we always have enough frozen, dry, and canned goods to last a while - and we buy it on sale

Xmas · Aug 8, 2014

Truzi said:
So many people now rely on GPS its seems they can't get anywhere without it. It's a bit sad - the (once scarce) ability of the average person to read a map is almost gone; technology seems to have replaced the ability to think. I've seen many paralyzed when their cell phones could not get a connection and thus could not tell them where to go. They would not even try. These are my peers, not teens who never knew anything else.

HiTrusi

I never turn the smart phone GPS on it is too hard on my battery.

The cell phone location is just as good normally.

Though in the USA that may not be be case. And when automobile fails it is not unknown in UK either.

Lots of people could never read a map any way and my phone is excellent for off line maps. If you remember to cache the local maps.

When I go hill walking allways take a paper map and non battery dependent compass and a mechanical camera.

It is amazing what queries you get, typically people who are lost, don't believe you when you tell them where they are.

Noel

Steve Smith · Aug 8, 2014

Truzi said:
So many people now rely on GPS its seems they can't get anywhere without it. It's a bit sad

It is. They seem to turn people into idiots... or robots.

I have been in a vehicle driven by someone who has taken the same route many times before, who has made a detour adding many miles to his journey just becasue the GPS told him to.

I can see their value in finding a specific address once you get to an area but you shouldn't really be looking at anything other than the road and road signs whilst driving.

Steve.

bsdunek · Aug 8, 2014

I guess Thomas Sowell is right - we have entered a 'post-thinking' era. From my view as an old man, I see everything politically correct, fads, fear of people, etc. Oh, well;

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2014/08/05/is-thinking-obsolete-n1874599

pdeeh · Aug 8, 2014

wow that's a well-balanced article ...

As film production declines

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