Arsat-c stuck in kiev 88 B.I.G. six body (CM/p6 mount)

Waffles_13 · Feb 2, 2023

Hey hey everyone, I have bit of problem with my kiev 88 big six and the arsat-c thats on it. When I bought the camera a few days ago I was able to remove the lens but noticed then when turning the focus ring the whole lens group turned with it at the start and end. I thought it was maybe a loose screw or something. But when I tried to fix the problem at home I noticed that when it was at its max at 0.6 meters I could just ''unscrew'' the lens group from the focus ring. I don't think thats the biggest problem, I think I can rebuild part of the lens to fix that problem. But to do that I need to take off the other half thats still on the body. Now the fun really begins. As I tried to remove the other half from the body (which worked fine before) it just wouldn't budge at all.

So is there anything inside the lens that might have locked up or something because the other half has separated?

Big thanks in advance!

Wick

I've got some videos on imgur to show the problems

(http://imgur.com/a/8waJRR7)

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

Oh boy, the dreaded "aperture pin under the actuator" problem!

OK, if this is the problem you will have to do the following:

1. Put in the darkslide of the magazine and remove it.
2. Cock the shutter. Make sure the lens is almost fully mounted but not locked on the mount. IMPORTANT.
3. Place the shutter speed on "B".
4. Now, you will have to do the following steps WHILE depressing and HOLDING the shutter release button (don't let up!).
5. Look into the aperture from the rear of the camera and try to locate the aperture stop-down lever that sticks out from the rear of the lens.
6. It is probably hung-up under the curved aperture apron that is supposed to press the lever during exposure.
7. Take something long like a chopstick and press the lever down (toward the front of the lens) to clear the aperture apron and then rotate the lens to remove it.

It helps to have 3 hands or a plan on how to use just 2 to make this work.

IF you release the shutter while your fingers or a chopstick is in the focal plane shutter path, you might just ruin the shutter.

DO AT YOUR OWN RISK; I take no responsibility for your actions!

See if this allows you to remove the lens.

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

For future reference:

Kiev B.i.G. lens mount

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

One more thing; on these lenses, the aperture actuator pin tends to progressively lengthen as the lens is stopped-down. It can help to return the lens to minimum aperture (wide open) before attempting to dismount the lens.

Waffles_13 · Feb 2, 2023

Thanks Kino! I'll have a look an try if that fixes it. Read about the issue online. And had a look inside already but I'll look and make some pics and post em here and fix it if that does the job.

but does the pin get stuck on under the apron on the red dot or at the blue arrow?

And I'll use a wire release to keep it open on bulb, that way ill never accidentally let go of the shutter button.

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

The pin gets under the apron and pushes the apron up only so far. The apron, when forced by the pin sticking outward, upwardly rotates at the pivot point and stops the lens from unmounting. The pin is essentially trapped between the apron and the lens mount with nowhere to go unless you push it inward enough to clear where the pivot point is located.

This is (one) of the weak points of the Kiev 88 and it's variants. The location of the aperture pins on various lenses is SHOULD fall within the width of the apron, but with time and use, the apron gets loose and can rotate upwards just far enough to trap the pin.

Waffles_13 · Feb 2, 2023

Hmmm, I looked if its stuck on the apron but as far as I can see its not stuck right?

(http://imgur.com/a/tS2ltT8)

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

It appears that the aperture mechanism inside the lens has jammed and the pin is frozen in an extended position.

Can you try gently pushing against the back of the apron just behind where the aperture pin touches?

The lens will probably not dismount properly with that pin extending out that far. Be sure the lens aperture ring is wide open...

Also, since the lens internals are out, try pulling that pin from the front to see if it will move forward.

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

You ARE pushing the lens mount release also, right? I hate to ask...

I think its under the hot shoe.

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

If none of the above helps, I am afraid you will need to contact someone like Arax for help.

ARAX - upgraded medium format film camera, lens, adapter, service.

Film photo equipment manufacturing and service. From Ukraine with shipping to any country worldwide. Keep Film Alive

araxfoto.com

Waffles_13 · Feb 2, 2023

In my second video from the second post you can see mee push on the apron and even see the mechanism inside the lens move so it can't be stuck right?
Hahaha yes I'm pushing the lens mount release. I mean maybe there's something wrong with that. But im not sure why that should be a problem now the lens group is out. hmmm, really living the kiev 88 life right here. But itll make it all the more enjoyable when ill be able to use it.

Kino · Feb 2, 2023

What lens is that? Did you check the website in post #3 for compatibility of the lens?

The lens group has nothing to do with the lens mount release. If the lens jammed the release tab and the button does not retract it, that's a real problem.

I think we can dismiss my original theory of the jammed aperture pin and move it to being a jammed lens mount.

Yeah, it's not meant to be insulting when I ask if you are pushing the lens release button. You have to cover every possibility, because some people don't even know which direction they should be turning the lens to mount or unmount it.

koraks · Feb 3, 2023

Welcome to Photrio, @Waffles_13 ! We've met already in real life, and it's great to have you on board here as well
I hope you get your Kiev problem sorted out. Sadly, I'm of no help; apart from having looked into the 88 many years ago as a possible purchase, I don't think I've ever actually been near one...

Waffles_13 · Feb 5, 2023

@Kino its a Arsat-C 80mm. The release button itself works great, but I'm not sure the mechanism inside works as intended. But its not visible/accessible inside the camera. #

Hahaha no worries kino, I had to show the seller of the camera where the release button was. So I've also seen my share.

Hey Koraks! nice to see you here aswell! I'll get it in working order, thats for sure. Might have to bring it to a shop to get it fixed, but it will work!

Arsat-c stuck in kiev 88 B.I.G. six body (CM/p6 mount)

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