Aristo - new info

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 23, 2010

SusanK said:
I was just curious and am hopeful (as are others) that another company might pick up the rights to manufacture and distribute the VCL4500 full assemblies.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

As am I, although I'm not at all certain just what Aristo's current mindset is.

Revamping their product website hints at their desire to keep the company a going concern, albeit at a reduced level. But discontinuing full head assemblies hints at their conclusion that the current market is unsustainably small. As it was, I think I read that near the end they were only batch manufacturing full assemblies on an on-demand, guaranteed basis, as part of their larger business.

I suppose if they hold on to the tooling there's always the possibility they could return to such a model. I would think that the barrier to that might be justifying the reinstallation of the currently packed-away tooling. And the space to set it all up in. If they hadn't been purchased and required to break everything down and relocate, then maybe they might still be a going concern.

Perhaps if black-and-white photography can continue its modest rebound... and the world economy improves... and enough people email them... or someone with another photo equipment manufacturing company is reading this thread and senses an opportunity... who knows?

Ken

SusanK · Apr 23, 2010

Ken,

Like you, I hope aristo returns to manufacturing the full assembly... at least for the vcl4500. Obviously, I'm partial to that model. Even if they only produced them in batches. I'd be happy to order one (plus a couple of lamps) and then "wait" for the production. I haven't been in the darkroom on a consistent basis for a couple of years... waiting a little longer certainly wouldn't kill me. But, to think that this is "the end" of the best cold light head out there would be very disappointing. I'm not sure which, if any other light head, would be worth my investment. I've dabbled in digital and there's just no comparison to time spent in an analog darkroom, to say nothing of the characteristics of a fiber base print.

I'll let you know when I hear back from Louise.

sk

SusanK · Apr 23, 2010

Here's the response that I just received from Louise... it's sad news, unfortunately.

Hi Susan,

I’m afraid that it’s highly doubtful since at the time of

Aristo’s demise there was neither material nor documentation for the equipment.

To restart this kind of product would require a huge outlay of human and capitol expense for myriad of various components that the return on investment is extremely small and more into the negative area.

I’m working on the replacement lamps, but even that is going to be a long haul to re-engineer. I’m trying but don’t know if we will be successful.

Best Regards,
Louise M. Kessler

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 24, 2010

SusanK said:
Here's the response that I just received from Louise...

Quite interesting regarding the lack of "material [and] documentation for the equipment." I hadn't heard that. On their home page it says:

"We have served the Medical, Scientific, Industrial, Aerospace, Photographic, Graphic Arts and National Defense Markets Since 1939."

Not sure how they fulfilled National Defense Market contracts without boatloads of product manufacturing documentation for Uncle Sam. In any case, having opened up my (new-to-me) used unit just to take a look, I can't see that reverse engineering the old-style discreet component circuitry I found inside would be anywhere near impossible. I realize that a portion of it was probably custom fabricated by third party vendors just for Aristo, but still... It seems to me there's another Impossible resurrection taking place right now. And the degree of difficulty of that task dwarfs what I saw inside my VCL4500.

I'll tell you, Susan, if I had the disposable income I make 'em a fair offer on the whole product line. Then restart it as a hobby just to repay Photography for all the enjoyment I've received over the decades.

Let's hope Louise is successful in her mission to revive the replacement lamps. That would help immensely.

Ken

SusanK · Apr 24, 2010

Hey Ken,

I hope that another company picks up the product line and begins to manufacture them again. OR, that you win the lottery and take over the manufacture.

I searched online for a while last night and can't even find a used one. Made a couple of phone calls to some long time wedding photographer friends with a lot of connections who wrote down "aristo vcl 4500" and said they'd "put the word out" to see if anyone has a used light head gathering dust in a studio somewhere. Maybe I'll get lucky and find one that way.

I could just kick myself for not purchasing one last year, even though I would've had to put it on a credit card to do so (I've been working on getting out from under credit card debt). I've so enjoyed the "meditative quality" of my analog darkroom over the years that I'm just not ready to give it up. Last week I was out walking around with the camera (for the first time in a long time), stumbled onto an area of gorgeous mud cracks (all hail Brett Weston), and made for rolls worth of 6x6 images. The negatives processed great at N+1 and appear as though they will look very nice as 11x11 inch prints... so long as my old light head continues to function.

sk

john_s · Apr 24, 2010

The circuit diagram for the VCL4500 is (was?) on the aristogrid website. It is quite simple, though the diagram does not specify fully each component.

I have been talking to someone with a second hand VCL4500 recently but I decided that it would be an expensive way of getting a spare used set of tubes of unknown age. According to Louise, a set of tubes lasts around 5 years in a professional darkroom. Which probably means that for amateur use they might well last a lifetime. I'll just use mine till it dies (or I die first).

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 31, 2010

Here is an 8/30/2010 update. From an exchange with Louise Kessler at Aristo/Voltarc/LCD...

Ken: "Were you ever able to twist enough arms regarding the possible restart of production for replacement lamp grids for any of the cold light head products?"

Louise: "Still working on this the issue is the solid color glass the lamps are made out of not a popular item and finding a reliable source has been difficult. I still have hope though, but it will take some time."

And the next morning in response to a question by me...

Louise: "I dont mind you posting my comments I try to be very honest even if it hurts. Im trying to keep a product line going (with at times) very little help inside here. Its not their fault at allThis company just didnt understand the full impact the Aristo products had on the BW market. Its not their focus of attention."

Followed by...

Louise: "Onward and upward - Ill keep trying."

Trying to lend some help, I also sent a longish letter to the parent company Light Sources, Inc. at this address inquiring as to the possibility of long-term product support for the large number of existing Aristo systems still being used. At a minimum the possibility of replacement grid lamps.

Ken

George Collier · Sep 2, 2010

Would it help for other APUGers to write as well, or survey the membership, and send one letter with number of hopeful Aristo users?

fotch · Sep 2, 2010

Money talks. If everyone that has a cold light head would commit to buying a backup bulb or two, and if that number was in the thousands, you would get their attention, maybe.

Curt · Sep 2, 2010

fotch said:
Money talks. If everyone that has a cold light head would commit to buying a backup bulb or two, and if that number was in the thousands, you would get their attention, maybe.

That's the best idea that I've heard on the subject. And you are absolutely right, it's a money matter, business is driven by the $$$'s and who out there couldn't use a new or replacement or spare bulb or two for their heads. The larger the head the more money invested in that head so it wouldn't make any sense to NOT get a spare at the very least. Supports the economy too.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 3, 2010

'George',

In my opinion, yes it would. Rather than being buried, as is usually the case with those "Contact us" email pages, I received a direct response from a Light Sources executive vice president first thing the next morning. I am currently working on a response to his reply.

I would encourage anyone who owns an Aristo cold light head of any model, or who has considered purchasing one used, and who wishes to keep it running into the future, to make those wishes known at the above linked address. Mine was titled "Question Regarding Support for Aristo Product Owners."

At this time I won't directly paste the VP's reply, as I have not asked his permission to do so. But I will say that he expressed concern that traditional black-and-white photography is on the verge of "extinction" and that this fact was a major concern for his company regarding additional production runs of new grid lamp tubes. But he also said that the company was willing to continue making lamps available when the volumes are justified.

'fotch' and 'Curt',

You are both absolutely correct. The VP expressed the worry that the remaining Aristo users would not be willing to pay the cost of new replacement tubes, (very) roughly estimated by him to be in the hundreds of dollars each. So again, any expressions of commitment by current Aristo owners willing to do just that should by all means be made known to the company.

One thing I plan to say to him is that the last listed price for one of their more expensive grids (the twin tube VCL4500 that I own) was already $425. And that anyone who had already bought into the Aristo line was already more than aware that it was a premium line of hardware - and replacement parts. And they certainly won't balk now if given a last chance to secure those investments.

At least I would hope they wouldn't balk.

Personally, if given the opportunity to purchase a replacement VCL4500 lamp grid, I'd buy two immediately. Anyone else feel similarly?

Ken

George Collier · Sep 3, 2010

I use the single V54 bulb with filters, and I know I would buy at least one. My original HI4500 lamp lasted me 20 years, so, at my age one would probably be enough, but I might go for two depending on the price.

jeffreyg · Sep 3, 2010

I've often thought a spare VCL4500 lamp grid would be a great idea to have - every time I do some printing. Just in case I still have a cold light and condensers but would have to find VC filters if they are still sold. Count me in.

http://jeffreyglasser.com/

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 3, 2010

jeffreyg said:
I've often thought a spare VCL4500 lamp grid would be a great idea to have...

Count me in.

That's great, Jeffrey. Have you also considered sending a note to this effect directly to Light Sources, Inc. at this address?

We know that such a note will end up on the vice president's desk. And he is the one who really needs to hear it directly...

Ken

jeroldharter · Sep 3, 2010

Ken Nadvornick said:
...
I would encourage anyone who owns an Aristo cold light head of any model, or who has considered purchasing one used, and who wishes to keep it running into the future, to make those wishes known at the above linked address. Mine was titled "Question Regarding Support for Aristo Product Owners."

...
Ken

I just did. Thanks for the info. I suggested that, at a minimum, they do a pre-announced last run of replacement tubes so that those interested can order a lifetime supply. I would like some replacement tubes for the VCL8100 head.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 3, 2010

jeroldharter said:
I just did. Thanks for the info. I suggested that, at a minimum, they do a pre-announced last run of replacement tubes so that those interested can order a lifetime supply. I would like some replacement tubes for the VCL8100 head.

Perfect. Thank you sir...

Ken

George Collier · Sep 6, 2010

Sent off my request for more lamp production to Ken's link.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 7, 2010

George Collier said:
Sent off my request for more lamp production to Ken's link.

Thanks, George.

Here's an interesting statistic I ran across recently:

"The highest power consumption of a fluorescent lamp and fixture occurs during the starting process, and it is generally accepted that each start of a fluorescent lamp shortens its operating life by about twenty minutes." [Reference]

Just sayin'...

Ken

George Collier · Sep 7, 2010

I wonder if this applies to preheated lamps, like the Aristo Grids. (Point taken, though)

fschifano · Sep 7, 2010

Just got this back from Louise Kessler at Voltarc, the new owner of the old Aristo. So, good news for anyone needing D2-HI lamp.

Dear Frank,

I’ve gotten the approval to start taking orders for the D2-HI style lamp.

Engineering tells me they are about 2-3 wks for a production release.

Part Number: D2-HI-LO-V54

Lead time: 4-6 wks

Price: $165.00 ea

Shipping: FOB Connecticut

Payment: Visa/MasterCard

Let me know if you wish to place an order.

Best Regards,

Louise M. Kessler

LCD Lighting, Inc.
Voltarc

37 Robinson Blvd.
Orange, CT 06477
Tel 1-203-799-7877 ext 3163
Fax 1-203-795-5267
email: louise.kessler@voltarc.com

email: lkessler@LCDL.com

Reinhold · Sep 7, 2010

I just got the same response from Louise.

Now all those 4x5 Omega's and Beselers with those old Aristo single-grade lamps can be retrofitted with V54 lamps. Good news indeed.

Six months from now, how would someone find this information if they just blew a tube and didn't know where to look? APUG still doesn't have a user friendly "Resources" section (not a chatterbox forum, but a bona-fide list of contacts for the stuff we all need to keep our art alive).

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 7, 2010

fschifano said:
Just got this back from Louise Kessler at Voltarc, the new owner of the old Aristo. So, good news for anyone needing D2-HI lamp.

That's great news for all D2 owners, Frank. Are the new lamps going to be the variable contrast compatible V-54 type tubes?

As was mentioned earlier, the company does seem willing to make replacement lamps available when the demand for a specific model justifies it. They just need to see that demand, which they apparently did for the D2-HI model above.

So if you use an Aristo head, or have considered acquiring one used, and would like to see replacement lamp production continue for additional models (especially the VCL series of lamps), please make your wishes known at this link.

For a short list of those replacement lamp grids still currently available, see this link. Page down to the "Aristo Replacement Lamps" section.

Thanks,
Ken

fschifano · Sep 7, 2010

My initial query was about the V54 replacement lamp, which is the one recommended for VC papers. I'm assuming that the D2-HI lamp is the replacement for that. There's no reason why the V54 wouldn't work with graded papers as well. It might be a little slower with graded papers, but to me that wouldn't make any difference.

Barry S · Sep 7, 2010

Can anyone confirm if the D2-HI lamp is a direct replacement for the lamp in the Zone VI 4x5 cold light head? It looks like the same lamp, but I'd like to confirm it. Thanks.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 7, 2010

fschifano said:
My initial query was about the V54 replacement lamp, which is the one recommended for VC papers. I'm assuming that the D2-HI lamp is the replacement for that. There's no reason why the V54 wouldn't work with graded papers as well. It might be a little slower with graded papers, but to me that wouldn't make any difference.

The V-54 is the latest lamp iteration, I believe. I have one (the non-HI version) installed in a Zone VI head that I have used for years. They work quite well with variable contrast papers, especially the Ilford papers. But it is a good idea to test for your individual contrast grade points when using your filter set.

My step wedge testing showed that with this lamp I was able to generate true ISO contrast grades from '00' through '5' using MGIV RC. But in between those points the grade progression was not linear. Testing allowed me to pinpoint exactly what I was getting, which made my printing sessions much easier and more repeatable. I never tried to create a customized filter set.

I was also very successful in using the V-54 lamp with graded papers, specifically Kentmere Bromide. The blue component of the lamp is so much stronger than that generated by an incandescent enlarging bulb that I was forced to purchase some Roscoe neutral density sheets and custom-cut some DIY filters to reduce the intensity. This allowed me to use the sharpest apertures on my enlarging lenses, while keeping my print exposure times to around 30 seconds - my preferred duration.

In an attempt to obtain more linear contrast grade progression, I later acquired a VCL4500. Although the lamp grids are now pretty tired (hence my desire to nudge Aristo back into the replacement lamp business, hoping to eventually include my lamps), I was able to calibrate the light output to give a perfectly linear progression of official ISO grades from '00+' to '5' using both MGIV FB and RC. (Grade '6' was unreachable for me.) My only problem now is very long exposure times from lamp grids that need replacing.

Ken

Aristo - new info

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