Arista Reels for 35/120 vs Hewes

JWMster · Aug 22, 2017

Arista plastic reels from Freestyle have been even easier than the Paterson reels in getting started with development - due to the extra wide flanges. Flawless for 35mm, they seem to be binding 120 film that I'm beginning to work with now.

So I'm wondering whether Hewes 120 reels would be "easier" or "better" given that they attach to the center of the reel rather than thread through the edge the way the Paterson / Arista reels do? Also, I assume they are usable in the same Nikkor steel/aluminum tanks Hewes also fits their 35mm reels into?

Appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, comments, etc.

John Koehrer · Aug 22, 2017

Yup, same tanks. My preference would be the Kindermann type with a plastic lid because they leak less but over time I've had at least one
that the top split. That may have not have been a genuine Kindermann.
Some people find the Hewes easier to load because the spiral's a bit thicker but I haven't noticed any reel(!) difference

JWMster · Aug 22, 2017

John: THANKS!

mshchem · Aug 22, 2017

I have every reel made. 120 can be a pain to load onto any plastic reel. For me a nice newer Paterson reel was always the easiest plastic reel. I now have a Jobo Processor so have had to learn the secrets of Jobo. On Jobo you need to cut a tiny bit off each corner of the end of the film (that you are feeding in). This makes all the difference, in fact if you are gentle you can simply slide the film onto the reel, no ratcheting etc.
SS either Hewes or Kindermann reels. Once you get in the groove it's easy. I still struggle occasionally, but I've seen people that can load SS reels faster than anyone can load plastic.
John is correct the Kindermann plastic lids seal very well. Beseler had Kindermann make tanks, these have a little fancier looking lids and caps. All Nikor tanks leak a bit but that never bothered me.
I have never had good luck with off brand SS, the wire is soft and thin. There's nothing finer than a Hewes reel.
I love developing film.
Best Regards Mike

mgb74 · Aug 23, 2017

I find that the 35mm Hewes reels are wonderful to load. You could load them while in a bobbing life-raft during a hurricane. I don't find the 120 Hewes reels quite as easy - I assume due to the width of the film. My Jobo plastic reel is the easiest reel I have for loading 120.

JWMster · Aug 23, 2017

What seems to happen in my case with the Arista reels (used to go by another name that escapes me at present) is that often I get halfway loaded (not a reference to drinking!), and then the film jams in the "helpful" tab threads used to start the loading job. Slow work to get it done, but it can be done. Seems to work more reliably to let the tape end of the 120 come on last as there is often enough residue from the tape remaining on the film to cause the jamming problem. Maybe it is just a matter of becoming conscious of the problem to solve it? Watching some videos on the Youtube (Chris Crawford in particular), there's the note that with the Hewes loading from the inside out (rather than outside in... as the Paterson/Arista plastic do), the whole process works better with the tape end loaded at the center providing a better "gripping" surface for the clip. Giving the plastic a little more time to see if I can reliably get this to work. Thanks for the input here. Good and helpful comments... but mostly encouragement that yes, this ain't as easy as 35mm.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 23, 2017

JOBO reels are easy like others mentioned for loading 120. I just push the film on after I get it started. You can put two rolls on one reel as well. They have a little tab that keeps the second roll feeding past the first. Worth the money in my opinion if you are going to get new reels. Not cheap though unfortunately, but neither are Hewes. The only downside to plastic reels vs. steel reels is you are more likely to get bubbles sticking at the edges of the film so you need to whack the tank to dislodge them.

Svenedin · Aug 23, 2017

If these Arista reels are the same as the "AP" reels that I have then I agree they can be difficult with 120 film. The flanges do make it easier to start the film loading properly but if they jam it is very difficult to get the film back out without damaging it.

JWMster · Aug 23, 2017

Svenedin: YES! That's it... AP reels. The same. FWIW, I've not found a way to back the film out and have had to separate the two halves... which has been my downfall. Fed two this a.m. Don't think it was fatal this time, but we'll see once I have a chance to develop them.
Patrick: JOBO reels... for manual processing? A JOBO machine ain't on my radar screen - tad more scratch than I want to spend. But I do see that some process with JOBO reels/tanks by hand. Do you? or do you fit them in a different tank?

Svenedin · Aug 23, 2017

JWMster said:
Svenedin: YES! That's it... AP reels. The same. FWIW, I've not found a way to back the film out and have had to separate the two halves... which has been my downfall. Fed two this a.m. Don't think it was fatal this time, but we'll see once I have a chance to develop them.
Patrick: JOBO reels... for manual processing? A JOBO machine ain't on my radar screen - tad more scratch than I want to spend. But I do see that some process with JOBO reels/tanks by hand. Do you? or do you fit them in a different tank?

Yes! I do not know a way of getting the film out without separating the reels. This inevitably causes a kink in the film which will ruin a print. I have had to resort to brutal measures once or twice -I felt along the entire film, found the kink on the edge of the film and cut out a V with scissors. This does save most of the film. Now I tend to only use Paterson reels. They are harder to get started but if the film does jam I can get the film out without damage.

Sometimes it is easier to start the film from the taped end. Feel for the tape, cut the taped bit off (removing the tape may leave sticky behind), and load that end. You can also try cutting the corners off the end of the film going on the reels (like with 35mm).

mshchem · Aug 23, 2017

The AP reels "look" easier to start. I still think that a dry, clean, new Paterson reel is the easiest plastic reel I've used. The AP reels "bite" onto the film. Jobo are very difficult to load 120 if you don't nip the corners. If you nip about a 3-4mm corner off each corner of the 120 film, I can usually feed two rolls of 120 on 1 reel without any problems.
I use IR goggles so I can load anything.
For 35mm the Hewes reels are so well designed and made that they are a absolute Joy to use. I haven't tried it in a hurricane though . If you really want to spend money try a 35mm Hewes reel with their spiral loader. Leave the film in the cassette, retrieve the film tab with a puller, pull out about 3 inches of film, trim off the tab and insert the film onto the reel teeth. Then you switch off the lights turn the crank for about 5 seconds and the reel is loaded, cut off the film attached to the cassette and you are done. Cool as can be but completely unnecessary

If you are on a strict budget try a NEW Paterson reel, I think they are around 10-12 USD. Oh and leave the tape end on the outside of the reel.
Best Mike

mgb74 · Aug 23, 2017

JWMster said:
... Watching some videos on the Youtube (Chris Crawford in particular), there's the note that with the Hewes loading from the inside out (rather than outside in... as the Paterson/Arista plastic do), the whole process works better with the tape end loaded at the center providing a better "gripping" surface for the clip. ....

I think starting with the tape end as you describe helps to get an "even" (not cockeyed) start of the reel by providing a firmer section of film.

JWMster · Aug 23, 2017

Thanks for the added info. If I can ever figure the Hewes out, maybe with a Hewes "loader" (I'll have to look into that!) it sure would be nice! I have a few in the basement collecting dust. Like I said for Hewes 120 reels, it seems to make sense to begin with the tape end where there is more to bite.

However, with the plastic that feed from the outside in, the added thickness seems a bad idea to try to feed this into the channel rather than have this the last bit to run onto the reel. Yes, I have a collection of reels!!! so I've now tried the Paterson reels for 120 and they seem to be designed for 120... not hard at all. Never really tried them for 35mm 'cause I found the AP (Arista) reels even easier for 35mm. But these AP (Arista) just aren't easy for 120. So that may be the answer. Will give the Paterson the next "go".

Thanks!

Patrick Robert James · Aug 23, 2017

Svenedin- I hand process. I wish I had a JOBO machine.

With the JOBO reels, I have never had any issues with 120 catching in the corners. Occasionally I get a 35mm roll catching, but just a simple pinch of the reel usually resolves the problem. In other words, I don't trim the corners.

MattKing · Aug 24, 2017

The AP reels are the best reels I have ever used for loading 120.
I peel the tape off the backing paper, and fold it over the leading edge of the film, to create a firm(er) front edge, which then gets pulled past the ball bearings.
I always hold one side of the reel in one hand, and ratchet the other side in with my other, much more dexterous hand. The film (always Kodak) leaps easily into the reel.
One point though - it is really important to hold the reel sides gently and to avoid at all costs pushing the sides of the reels toward each other.

JWMster · Sep 6, 2017

True confessions? I've now tried every reel in the book. I'm going to agree with Matt King that the AP/Arista Paterson-style and tank size reels are the easiest. The hard thing for me turns out getting in done in the changing bag. Fact, the humidity built up in the bag one day it wrecked a roll of film as I wrestled. Since then, I'm changing in a closet at night with a shower curtain and door block for complete darkness.... and frankly this couldn't be easier. ANY film reel is easier with the space available and I'm a happy camper again. Sometimes.... the solution is less the equipment and more the technique required by the conditions we're operating. If the humidity thing hadn't spoiled a reel...and I now count this as a great long-term favor, I might not have wised up for a long time. Just a thought.

GRHazelton · Sep 6, 2017

I've had fairly good results with Paterson reels and 120 film by loading the tape end first. The tape apparently adds enough stiffness to help keep the film in the spiral of the reel.

CMoore · Sep 7, 2017

JWMster said:
The hard thing for me turns out getting in done in the changing bag. Fact, the humidity built up in the bag one day it wrecked a roll of film as I wrestled. Since then, I'm changing in a closet at night with a shower curtain and door block for complete darkness.... and frankly this couldn't be easier. ANY film reel is easier with the space available and I'm a happy camper again. t.

Boy -Oh- Boy.....count me as another guy that has always struggled with those dark bags. I had a disastrous incident just last night. I think i managed to start the 35mm on The Hewes Reel backward, and then it turned into a mess. When i finally did get the film off, the edges were in bad shape, and i also Creased/Popped a few of the negs. It was so bad that i could not restart the film on The Hewes. I covered it all up with the bag and grabbed a Paterson Reel. That started the film but would not deal with the rough edges, so i had to abandon that also.
I have ONE Plastic Reel that is different. Maybe it is the AP type you guys are taking about.? T
The Gate/Tags where you insert the film are Much Bigger. It makes it Very Easy to start the film. So i got the 35mm started on that one, and then it pulled it all the way in with no problem.
But yeah, those dark bags. My hands get sweaty, and the Proximity/Room on the inside is an issue for me. My lower back is fused, and so is my right wrist. Anything that requires some finesse can be difficult for me. Standing in front of a counter top, with lots of room, with the lights out is better for me i guess.

Svenedin · Sep 7, 2017

CMoore said:
Boy -Oh- Boy.....count me as another guy that has always struggled with those dark bags. I had a disastrous incident just last night. I think i managed to start the 35mm on The Hewes Reel backward, and then it turned into a mess. When i finally did get the film off, the edges were in bad shape, and i also Creased/Popped a few of the negs. It was so bad that i could not restart the film on The Hewes. I covered it all up with the bag and grabbed a Paterson Reel. That started the film but would not deal with the rough edges, so i had to abandon that also.
I have ONE Plastic Reel that is different. Maybe it is the AP type you guys are taking about.? T
The Gate/Tags where you insert the film are Much Bigger. It makes it Very Easy to start the film. So i got the 35mm started on that one, and then it pulled it all the way in with no problem.
But yeah, those dark bags. My hands get sweaty, and the Proximity/Room on the inside is an issue for me. My lower back is fused, and so is my right wrist. Anything that requires some finesse can be difficult for me. Standing in front of a counter top, with lots of room, with the lights out is better for me i guess.

I sympathise. I loaded 3 x 120 AP plastic reels just now. One of them jammed, the other 2 were no trouble at all. In the end I had to separate the reels -this invariably damages at least one frame and makes it unprintable. When I separated the reels I found that the jam was not at the leading end of the film -somehow the film had got stuck about halfway along and it was really stuck in the spiral groove. I actually hate loading film whether 35mm or 120. It is for me by far the most difficult thing in the whole photographic process and despite over 30 years experience of loading plastic reels I hate it. Looking at the negatives several frames are ruined by a "pop" (that crescent shape). I grow tired of this happening so often and films ruined -shots I won't be able to take again.

I am going to put all of my reels through the very hot cycle in the dishwasher after scrubbing them in case there is any residue causing this problem. I don't think so, I wash them in hot water after every use. They are always dry when I load film so it's not that. They are a mixture of old Paterson and newer AP but that doesn't explain it -either can jam.

Maybe I am just rubbish at loading reels but this doesn't explain why most are straightforward but a significant proportion jam either retrievably or need the reels separated.

I am tempted to buy a Hewes reel and see how I get on with it. If successful I might ditch plastic reels for good. There are Hewes reels made that fit Paterson tanks. The only thing stopping me is the cost of Hewes reels and the fact that I have a lot of plastic ones.

Svenedin · Sep 8, 2017

I have finally had enough of plastic reels and I've ordered a Hewes 120 reel with a 1" core (fits Paterson tanks) to try my luck. I also found a second hand Hewes 120 loader for the same price as a reel which was a bonus.

tokam · Sep 8, 2017

I've been using Patterson reels and tanks for 35mm for over 40 years with good results. 120 is a different story - somewhat hit or miss with the occasional kinked film which results in crescents which spoil the frame.

A few months back I bought some Hewes 120 and 35mm reels from an APUG user and some LPL stainless tanks from another APUGer. It took about an hour with a sacrificial roll of 120 to master the 'muscle memory' for loading the Hewes reel. (Stainless reels had always terrified me before. How did I know that the film was following the spiral?).
Anyway, the first attempt to load 120 on the Hewes was easier than falling off a log. The film almost jumped onto the reel. The secret is getting the film in the clip evenly and knowing how the film end should feel under the spring clip at the centre of the reel.

I haven't yet tried the Hewes 35mm reel, which by most accounts is easier than the 120, but I have a recently acquired Olympus Trip 35 in beaut condition which will be getting an outing this weekend. Either a roll of Foma 200 or FP4 in keeping with it's age.

Svenedin · Sep 21, 2017

Last night I loaded 7 films onto Hewes stainless steel reels (3x 35mm and 4x 120) without problems. I should have given up on Paterson reels a long time ago. The Hewes reels I have fit the centre column of Paterson tanks so I can still use my Paterson gear. The only thing I noticed was that the purple dye of TMax 400 persisted in some patches on the very edge of the 35mm films (but not the 120). All of the film was TMax 400 in freshly made up rapid fixer and processed in 2 batches of Tank 1: 1x 120 +3x 35mm and Tank 2: 3x 120. Only the 35mm showed purple on the edges. I'm assuming this is from film touching the reel and I'm not going to worry about it.

AgX · Sep 21, 2017

JWMster said:
But I do see that some process with JOBO reels/tanks by hand. Do you? or do you fit them in a different tank?

I think that is an american trait:
connecting the term "Jobo" with a processor. I connect it with a hand operated tank.

People could buy here Jobo tanks at a supermarket, without knowing that Jobo offered a processor, still a quite simple model. Actually I myself only recently learned about that model.

phrons · Sep 21, 2017

I use the patterson tank.

For 120 I fold the tape over and use that side to get it on the reel.

BUT, the most important thing I do to make 120 easy.... I take a pencil (not mechanical) and run it along the tracks of the reel. The graphite makes it so much easier to move the film without it getting stuck, even when there is a little moisture in the changing bag.

***try this at your own risk, this works for me and if you don't have success remember I was just saying what works for me

Arista Reels for 35/120 vs Hewes

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Arista Reels for 35/120 vs Hewes

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