Arista Premium Film

Marvin · Mar 7, 2010

Just wonder if any of you have used the 100 and 400 Arista Premium Film and how they compare to Plus X and Tri X. I wonder if these might also be available in 120 in the future.
Marvin

Anon Ymous · Mar 7, 2010

If you search this forum, you'll find that AP400 is 400TX. A member (LeeL?) has even posted characteristic curves of both AP400 and 400TX, which match.

fschifano · Mar 7, 2010

Used them both. They are exactly the same as 125PX and 400TX.

Wade D · Mar 8, 2010

I'm using the 100 speed and it is the same as Plus-X.

DanielStone · Mar 8, 2010

happily using both .

saving me LOTS of money vs. the yellow boxed versions of the same thing

-Dan

rjbuzzclick · Mar 8, 2010

Ditto.

Dali · Mar 8, 2010

I don't use Plus X or Tri X so I can't compare. But I developed both AP100 and AP400 recently and they were fine.

Using Diafine, I rated AP100 at ISO 200 and AP400 at ISO 1000 without major trouble.

SilverGlow · Mar 8, 2010

They're Kodak products...they develop with very fine grain in D76, or Clayton F76, or to save more $$, use Arista Premium Developer which is F76....Arista Premium films and chemicals are fantastic and cheap too.

FilmOnly · Mar 30, 2010

I appreciate the information here, as I have been thinking of buying some 100 and 400 Arista Premium. The prices are simply spectacular. It has been a while since I have used Tri-X and Plus-X, and so I am not sure if I will be pleased with the grain structure. I currently use Delta 100 and 400 (35mm).

Athiril · Mar 30, 2010

Now if they only came in 120..

DanielStone · Mar 30, 2010

I thought there was a petition going around to try to get Freestyle to pressure Kodak to let them re-roll TX and PX in 120.

I hope they can, cause TMY2 is getting kinda expensivo'!

-Dan

fschifano · Mar 30, 2010

I doubt that a petition will do any good. If we mention to Freestyle that we'd buy the product if it were offered, that would indicate a demand for the product. Do your ordering on the phone, or email them directly, and mention that you'd like to see Arista Premium 100 and 400 in 120 format. Might work.

Ektagraphic · Mar 30, 2010

Isn't this just going to cut Kodak's profits down if we all use the Arista?

Rick A · Mar 30, 2010

IMO, Kodak doesn't care about profit from film products, only their stupid printers that use less ink. If they cared about film, they would advertise it, then they might turn a profit from film sales. To me, it looks like they are only carrying a few photo products to satisfy a few diehard board members that wont let the company forget its roots.

Rick

Ektagraphic · Mar 30, 2010

Well, I don't want this thread to turn into a Kodak basher but they have brought us Ektar 100 and have kept their Portra and black and white line up pretty full. Especially compared to what Fuji is now offering.

fschifano · Mar 30, 2010

I don't think so. Would you jeopardize your profit margin to sell a re-labeled product? I'm sure the bean counters at Kodak did their homework before approving the deal to release the 35 mm film. Of course there is some risk, but the odds must at least appear to favor both parties in the deal for the project to proceed.

Ektagraphic · Mar 30, 2010

Well the 100 is supposedly Plus-X. Plus X costs quite a bit more under the Kodak label than under the Arista....Wouldn't the rest be profit to Kodak when it is sold at a big place like Freestyle that deals directly with Kodak?

MattKing · Mar 30, 2010

Kodak may make more money selling Arista in bulk to Freestyle then it does when selling a smaller number of individual rolls to Freestyle.

I'm working on the assumption that Kodak is manufacturing this film and supplying it to Freestyle (or an intermediary) as long rolls, not individual cassettes.

If that is correct, Kodak does not need to supply finishing, packaging, labelling, distribution and post sale customer service.

Freestyle is a very different marketer than something like a photo store chain.

fschifano · Mar 30, 2010

I'm not going to say that I know how pricing in the film industry works, because I don't. All I'm saying is that some profit is better than no profit. Obviously, Kodak thinks it will move more film, and improve the bottom line for overall film sales, by offering it as a private label product. Has it worked? I couldn't begin to speculate. Arista Premium hasn't been on the market that long. Freestyle might still be selling down a huge inventory from the initial order. If the demand is strong enough to warrant another order, the gamble worked. If it doesn't, it didn't. Look at it this way. Say you can make and sell 100,000 units of a product and make a net profit of $.50 on each unit. By offering the same product under a private label, maybe you can make and sell 200,000 units of the same product and make $.25 on each unit. In the end you've made the same amount of money, but with important differences. The plant is kept running. Employees are kept working. Suppliers of raw materials and services are kept supplying. The money keeps moving and trickling down through the whole economy. As far as I can see, that's a win/win situation for everyone involved.

L Gebhardt · Mar 30, 2010

Not to mention it lets Kodak compete with the cheaper European brands without cutting the price on Kodak films. That lets them keep their coating machines running.

erikg · Mar 30, 2010

This allows Kodak to get a piece of a market it wasn't in before due to price. There is a risk that some sales of their own branded product will go instead to this version, but more likely they are getting a slice that would have otherwise gone for product in that price range. I think what they really want to avoid is cutting prices in order to move stuff out. Having a sale is not something they have traditionally done, unlike other industries like cars and clothes.

Ektagraphic · Mar 30, 2010

MattKing said:
Kodak may make more money selling Arista in bulk to Freestyle then it does when selling a smaller number of individual rolls to Freestyle.

I'm working on the assumption that Kodak is manufacturing this film and supplying it to Freestyle (or an intermediary) as long rolls, not individual cassettes.

If that is correct, Kodak does not need to supply finishing, packaging, labelling, distribution and post sale customer service.

Freestyle is a very different marketer than something like a photo store chain.

When comparing the Kodak packaging to the Arista it is identical in the way it is set up and the material that is used to make the packaging and rolls so it looks to me as if Kodak is even rolling and boxing the films. It even says "Made in USA finished in Mexico" just like all of Kodak's rolls of 35mm film. (Not sure on the 100 ft). Someone brought up a good point about keeping the coating machines going. I never really thought of that In that case maybe they should do it with one of their color films that is a slow mover too.

fotch · Mar 30, 2010

I would think if the bulk of the sales of Arista Premium Film takes away market share from the imports, it may be a success.

There are those who don't know about Freestyle, those that don't believe that is is exactly the same as the Kodak branded products, those who don't want to risk using anything but the best, and those who can afford to not care.

nyoung · Mar 30, 2010

Anon Ymous said:
If you search this forum, you'll find that AP400 is 400TX. A member (LeeL?) has even posted characteristic curves of both AP400 and 400TX, which match.

Soooooo.........I'm curious, what does the edge print on the Arista Premium say?

Back when I first started useing Freestyle, Arista 400 was really HP5 - the boxes said Arista but the edge print said Ilford HP5.

If it says Arista, does Freestyle have the capacity to create a unique edge print when re-rolling Kodak product or is Kodak actually making it and edge printing it for Freestyle as house brand?

I bring this up because if Freestyle is buying end rolls and leftovers from Kodak to repackage that's one thing.

If Kodak is actually producing and packaging the film on contract with Freestyle that's another thing entirely in terms of what we can infer about how the business is going.

fschifano · Mar 30, 2010

nyoung said:
Soooooo.........I'm curious, what does the edge print on the Arista Premium say?

Back when I first started useing Freestyle, Arista 400 was really HP5 - the boxes said Arista but the edge print said Ilford HP5.

If it says Arista, does Freestyle have the capacity to create a unique edge print when re-rolling Kodak product or is Kodak actually making it and edge printing it for Freestyle as house brand?

I bring this up because if Freestyle is buying end rolls and leftovers from Kodak to repackage that's one thing.

If Kodak is actually producing and packaging the film on contract with Freestyle that's another thing entirely in terms of what we can infer about how the business is going.

The rebate marking clearly indicate Arista Premium. From what I've gathered, these are done by a programmable machine, so anything at all can be printed. I haven't bought factory loaded cassettes of the stuff, preferring to use 100 ft. long rolls. The 100 ft. rolls are packaged exactly the same as the name branded stuff with the exception of the label, but that doesn't prove anything either. The cans are likely stock items in someone's inventory. Labels are labels. There are printing plants all over the place that can do this sort of work. Having said that, chances are very good that Kodak is doing the finishing and packaging. Shipping master rolls to and then paying a third party plant for finishing would seem not to make a whole lot of sense when Kodak has the infrastructure in place already. I can't see Freestyle running a film finishing operation either. The overhead would be too much to make it worthwhile.

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