Arista Ortho Film issue

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 26, 2023

Hi all,

Maybe this is a known issue but I have realised Arista Ortho films are coming scratched right out of box. I have just opened a 5x7 box with 100 cut sheets and nearly all of them have a hairline scratch at different places making the film not useful at all to create masks. A huge disappointment as I was just getting ok with creating masks.

Have you guys experienced this before? Is Ultrafine films any better? I understand the issue with Arista has been seen before as somebody is saying they might be even hand cut by Freestyle not really automated.

Cheers,
Fatih

DREW WILEY · Aug 26, 2023

It's really a lith film intended for very high contrast all-or-none work. Masking is a very low contrast application, so you have a bucking bronco when trying to tame lith film for this purpose. I would strongly using FP4 instead for masking work, or if making small negatives, TMax 100. And NO, you don't want to use Ultrafine or you'll be back into nearly the same dilemma - not necessarily scratches, but as if working with a microfilm that neither responds to ordinary developers well nor wants to be tamed to low contrast. I could go on and give more reasons why or why not. But that should be a clue.

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 27, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
It's really a lith film intended for very high contrast all-or-none work. Masking is a very low contrast application, so you have a bucking bronco when trying to tame lith film for this purpose. I would strongly using FP4 instead for masking work, or if making small negatives, TMax 100. And NO, you don't want to use Ultrafine or you'll be back into nearly the same dilemma - not necessarily scratches, but as if working with a microfilm that neither responds to ordinary developers well nor wants to be tamed to low contrast. I could go on and give more reasons why or why not. But that should be a clue.

Hi Drew,

Not quite sure why every time you oppose the idea using lith film to use for masking. I am following the tutorials and manuals from Lynn Radeka, Ctein and The Naked Photographer and they all use lith film. No issue there and you can get low contrast positives easily. I use Ilford Multigrade developer at 1+75 for CRM mask and 4+350 for unsharp mask and get low contrast positives always, max du is 0.25 for CRM and max du is 0.35 for unsharp mask.

Using panchromatic film is really expensive and I’ll keep that only for C41 negatives, for BW negatives, ortho lith films are fine.

So my question is still there, is Ultrafine any better (some says it is closer to Kodalith)

Cheers,
Fatih

Don_ih · Aug 27, 2023

The film might be getting scratched as it slides over the piece next to it. The edge could be burred from how it was cut. If you take all the sheets out of the package and lift the sheets off instead of sliding them, the scratches may disappear.

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 27, 2023

I thought about that, and then went through the whole deck without sliding them took them out and there are scratched ones in the deck, they are really thin super straight lines, sometimes just in the middle, sometimes closer to the edges. Also visible under safe light. Then I’ve opened another box and as far as I can see that doesn’t have much problems. Maybe it is a batch issue.

Don_ih · Aug 27, 2023

Unfortunately, the emulsion is very fragile and scratches extremely easily. But it's unacceptable that it would be scratched before you touch it. If possible, you should return that pack.

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 27, 2023

I’ll open a new box and do the way you told me. I’ve emailed to Freestyle let’s see what they say.

On Reddit somebody says, Freestyle cuts them after buying in bulk, that might be an issue as well

Don_ih · Aug 27, 2023

They definitely cut it from a roll - probably a roll that was made 30 years ago. That stuff used to be used by the mile by newspaper presses, back when there was a newspaper press in every little town (before they all disappeared).

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 27, 2023

Just to show what I mean.

She wavy scratch is made by me and then there is a very fine thin and super straight scratch, that is more or less in every single sheet and causing a thin line on enlarging

DREW WILEY · Aug 27, 2023

Faith. Good luck with that approach. But you aren't actually saving money that way if you're having so many problems. I've never had scratches with Arista Litho myself, but don't use it all that often, and mainly only as a high contrast lith film in relation to highlight masks, not soft contrast masks. But not too long ago I did use some for a succesful moderate contrast application. I don't know if any significant changes to it have transpired or not. What country of manufacture is printed on the box? Linear scratch patterns do sound like a cutting line issue. So I hope you get some kind of answer from Freestyle.

As far as what others might have said or briefly experimented with, Ctein personally stockpiled and used Kodak Pan Masking film, and almost entirely in relation to dye transfer printing. That film was equivalent to Plus X Pan sheet film minus the anti-halation layer. Nobody back then did contrast masks with Kodalith, or even Tech Pan, because there were so much more cooperative films. But if you are budget-constrained to use an ortho litho film, I wouldn't give up on Arista quite yet. Maybe they can send you a replacement box to test.

Fatih Ayoglu · Aug 27, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
Faith. Good luck with that approach. But you aren't actually saving money that way if you're having so many problems. I've never had scratches with Arista Litho myself, but don't use it all that often, and mainly only as a high contrast lith film in relation to highlight masks, not soft contrast masks. But not too long ago I did use some for a succesful moderate contrast application. I don't know if any significant changes to it have transpired or not. What country of manufacture is printed on the box? Linear scratch patterns do sound like a cutting line issue. So I hope you get some kind of answer from Freestyle.

As far as what others might have said or briefly experimented with, Ctein personally stockpiled and used Kodak Pan Masking film, and almost entirely in relation to dye transfer printing. That film was equivalent to Plus X Pan sheet film minus the anti-halation layer. Nobody back then did contrast masks with Kodalith, or even Tech Pan, because there were so much more cooperative films. But if you are budget-constrained to use an ortho litho film, I wouldn't give up on Arista quite yet. Maybe they can send you a replacement box to test.

Hi Drew,

I have another box of 5x7 and 2 boxes of 4x5. I will see if they have any of these straight lines. At least at the beginning, while I am still earning the craft, ortho lith film is cheap enough so I can do mistakes without breaking the bank. I mean I compare this a cheap seat film, like Foma 100, (50x 4x5 is £42.50) compare to Arista 100x 4x5 at $19, even with shipping and customs this thing is still too cheap. Right now, I can get max density 0.35 which is very reasonable for unsharp mask and good tonal separation at 10 sec exposure and 2 min development. I can do a similar thing for CRM, lower density with shorter development and longer exposure, so the shadows are getting more muddy.

As said, at some point I will do the same process with FP4 for C41 negatives where probably I will develop my skills further so I might drop Arista completely.

However, for the time being, those straight lines are probably a manufacturing defect and I hope Freestyle will solve my issue one way or another.

Arista Ortho Film issue

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