Arista film

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LKT

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I should like more info on Arista film offered by Freestyle. They say it is made in Hungary. Probably rebadged from a different brand.

1. How does it compare with TMX and TMY?

2. I have been told that Arista used to be rebadged Ilford film. Now it is Hungarian. Those used to the old Arista will have to test it all over again. Does Freestyle change their supplier like that frequently?

Thanks for any input.

Ka Tai
 

Curt

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Did you ask Freestyle? They give great feedback if you are sincere about an answer. Ask here and you will get a lot of guesses and not much that you can bank on. Go to Freestyle.

c
 

BradS

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Well, Curt is right, of course ,but I hate to see a thread shut down on the first repy so, I'll start the guessing and hints. Look at Efke, Forte and Foma. See where they are made. Chances are the Arista is one of those.
 

Monophoto

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Ka Tai -

The change from Ilford to the Hungarian manufacturer for Arista film was based on a decision by the new owners of the Ilford brand to no longer produce products that would be sold under other brand names. Freestyle had no choice but to find an alternative supplier.

The market turmoil over the last couple of years has certainly been inconvenient for photographers who had to find and test new materials. But it was far more traumatic for those employees of the various companies who chose to exit the silver photography business and had to find new jobs.
 

jim appleyard

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A couple of months ago I bought some outdated Arista 50 in 100 ft. rolls from Freestyle. This is probably Ilford Pan-F as the box says "made in England". Freestyle may have some of this left.
 

fschifano

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Freestyle has several different films under a few variations of the "Arista" name brand. Please note that I'm confining my observations to available B&W 35mm film stocks. Perusing the catalog I came across the following variations:

1: Arista Professional - These are most likely what's left of their rebranded Ilford films. All of them by now must be either short dated or past expiration.
2: Arista-II - Made in Germany. That's all I know. Any other information on my part would be speculation. If anyone knows the source of these films, speak up.
3: Arista.EDU - Made in Hungary. Most likely rebadged Forte films.
4: Arista.EDU Ultra - Manufactured in Czech Republic. Reported to be rebadged Foma films.
 

srs5694

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Fschifano is correct, AFAIK. I'll add that Arista II is reported to be Agfa. Note this means that both the Arista Pro and Arista II lines are going away and are probably in short supply.

Another point: Freestyle uses the same names for its papers, with mostly the same manufacturers, but I believe there may be one or two exceptions. The Arista.EDU Ultra paper is Foma and I think the Arista.EDU paper is Forte, but the Arista II paper is supposedly rebadged Kentmere (Freestyle claims it's made in England). Freestyle still has some limited stock of Agfa paper under the "Freestyle Private Reserve" name.

As to the original query about how these films compare to TMX and TMY, these Kodak products are both T-grain emulsions, but most of the Arista line are conventional-grain emulsions. The old Arista Pro D-Max films were rebadged Ilford Delta product, but I don't know if Freestyle has any of that stock left. I've seen conflicting claims about whether or not Fomapan 200 (aka Arista.EDU Ultra 200) is a T-grain film, but the 100 and 400 versions of these films definitely are not T-grain emulsions. The Fomapan/Arista.EDU Ultra films (especially in the 100 and 400 speeds) have unusually crisp grain structure, even in developers that normally produce mushy grain. The grain isn't particularly fine, though, unlike the T-Max films, and as conventional films, the grain structure has a more conventional look to it. Kodak's T-grain films have different spectral sensitivity than most B&W films, which means they do a better job with sky than do most films. If anything, I'd say the Foma/Arista.EDU Ultra films are worse than average in this respect, but they might just be average. I'm less familiar with the other Arista products (aside from Arista Pro 50, which is Ilford Pan F+ and is in short supply, if they've got any more of it at all), so I can't comment on them.

As to how often Freestyle changes suppliers, I don't know that, offhand, although the recent changes have been as a result of general upheavals in the photographic industry. I can say that, although Freestyle uses the "Arista" name in all of their films from different suppliers, they've given each supplier's line a different sub-name, as fschifano details. If you know this and pay attention to the sub-name, you won't shoot a roll and develop it only to find that it's something other than what you expected, at least not unless Freestyle changes its practice on this matter in the future.
 

Donald Qualls

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fschifano said:
3: Arista.EDU - Made in Hungary. Most likely rebadged Forte films.
4: Arista.EDU Ultra - Manufactured in Czech Republic. Reported to be rebadged Foma films.

I can comment on these two from experience.

The "Made in Hungary" is indistinguishable from Classic brand (which is well known to be rebranded Fortepan); in sheet film, only the notch code differs, but both have the same black interleaf sheets as well as producing identical results with identical metering and development.

The .EDU Ultra, again, is indistinguishable from Foma films sold under their own name, at least in the ISO 100. Same appearance, same metering, same process times.

Both, BTW, are the biggest bargains in film available today -- excellent films at very nice prices. If I could get nothing but Forte 400 and Foma 100 films, exactly as they're currently made, for the rest of my life, I would only complain on the rare occasions when I need the extreme pushing ability of Tri-X or the hyper-fine grain of microfilm stocks (for 16 mm).
 

Roger Hicks

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Foma 200 is NOT a T-grain film: I have seen the electron micrographs.

Nor is it ISO 200, except (barely) in speed-increasing developers. Source: Foma's own data sheets. The speed is pretty much identical to Ilford FP4 Plus, i.e. 125-160 in most things.

As far as I recall from the data sheets there are two different spectral sensitizations of Foma 200, different in the red sensitizing dyes: 35mm and the rest. But I can't find the data sheets at the moment.

I do not know of any coating lines in Hungary other than Forte, or in the Czech Republic other than Foma, or in Croatia other than Efke/Adox, so a 'Made in...' label is a giveaway.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)
 

Max Power

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fschifano said:
1: Arista Professional - These are most likely what's left of their rebranded Ilford films. All of them by now must be either short dated or past expiration.

I don't know if Freestyle has any left, but I bought two 100ft rolls of their rebadged Delta 100 in February and it is dated May 2007.

Kent
 
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OP

LKT

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Thank you all for your prompt and informative replies.

The reason I brought up this topic is that in my part of the world (Hong Kong) B/W film and paper are getting increasingly difficult to get. Since I plan to travel to LA later this year, I thought I might get a big lot of film and paper. Arista is very attractive in terms of price, and I am glad to hear that the quality is also good. I shoot mostly 120 roll film nowadays (6x12), blowing up to 16x20 max. So grain is not a big issue. But contrast and gradation are.

I do plan to do some tests before I commit myself to a big order, but I should just like to know from the group their experience with the 2 films. How does Foma compare with Forte?

Also, what about Arista paper. I have been using Ilford Multigrade exclusively all these years. How does Foma or Forte papers compare with Ilford?

I can of course ask Freestyle, but their reply will hardly be objective.

Thanks again for your help.

Ka Tai
 

donbga

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LKT said:
Thank you all for your prompt and informative replies.

The reason I brought up this topic is that in my part of the world (Hong Kong) B/W film and paper are getting increasingly difficult to get. Since I plan to travel to LA later this year, I thought I might get a big lot of film and paper. Arista is very attractive in terms of price, and I am glad to hear that the quality is also good. I shoot mostly 120 roll film nowadays (6x12), blowing up to 16x20 max. So grain is not a big issue. But contrast and gradation are.

I do plan to do some tests before I commit myself to a big order, but I should just like to know from the group their experience with the 2 films. How does Foma compare with Forte?

Also, what about Arista paper. I have been using Ilford Multigrade exclusively all these years. How does Foma or Forte papers compare with Ilford?

I can of course ask Freestyle, but their reply will hardly be objective.

Thanks again for your help.

Ka Tai

If you are shooting 120 why not use TMAX 400. It's a great film and will have much better grain than most other 400 films except for Ilford 400 Delta which is also a jewel to work with. Very nice in XTOL.

Clay Harmon has a good deal on 135 mm 400 Delta if that interests you.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

Paul Sorensen

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LKT said:
Also, what about Arista paper. I have been using Ilford Multigrade exclusively all these years. How does Foma or Forte papers compare with Ilford?
I do all my printing on the Arista.edu and J&C classic Forte paper. I use both the warm and neutral tone papers. I absolutely love both, but they do have a bit fussier character than Ilford. I find that the neutral Forte needs a light selenium tone or I don't like the color. It tends toward a green/blue cast. You have to be careful with the selenium, however, if you are not looking for a strong eggplant tone, since it takes the toner very readily. The warm paper comes in an ivory base or white, I only use the white. It also tones very well in selenium but does not seem to need it as badly in my experience. Both tend to have a yellow base until they are thoroughly washed, but in my experience it washes out well.

It might sound like a hassle, but I think that the paper is about the prettiest thing going and when you factor in the great prices from J&C and Freestyle, it is an amazing deal.

I have used only the RC Foma paper (Arista.edu ultra) and it was really flat. I couldn't get enough contrast no matter what I did. I gave up on it and have not tried the fiber paper. Hopefully someone else has some better experiences than I do.

Paul.
 

Donald Qualls

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Likewise, I'm in process of standardizing on Arista .EDU Ultra 100 and 400 film in 35 mm and 120, though I'm still using .EDU (Made in Hungary) for my 400 speed in 4x5, for the time being. All my printing lately has been on .EDU Ultra VC/RC -- and I need to check if they have a VC/FB that has the same or very similar response; I like the way it prints, but I need to print on fiber if I'm going to start selling prints...

Paul Sorensen said:
I have used only the RC Foma paper (Arista.edu ultra) and it was really flat. I couldn't get enough contrast no matter what I did. I gave up on it and have not tried the fiber paper. Hopefully someone else has some better experiences than I do.

I've had no trouble getting enough, even too much contrast with this paper. I split filter, using Lee theatrical lighting filters under a Zone VI cold light, and can get grades from about 0 to 5 or 6 if needed. Most of the time, however, I get prints I like with exposures that range from 3 yellow:2 blue to 2 yellow:3 blue (which I expect are pretty close to grades 1 1/2 through 3).
 

srs5694

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re: Arista.EDU Ultra (Foma) VC RC paper

Donald Qualls said:
I've had no trouble getting enough, even too much contrast with this paper.

I've only used 50 sheets of this paper (including paper used for test strips), but I concur with Donald; I've had no problem getting sufficient contrast. In fact, I recall printing one low-contrast negative on both Foma and Ilford MGIV, and with my enlarger set to max out the contrast, the Foma paper had just a bit more contrast. This is all judged by my eyeballs; I'm not set up with the equipment or knowledge to quantify contrast grades.

FWIW, my enlarger is a Philips PCS130 with a PCS150 color light source. This enlarger uses separate red, green, and blue lamps rather than VC filters. I don't know enough about VC emulsion designs and light sources to know if some papers might respond better to certain filtration systems than others.
 

Fotohuis

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556599703_b63dbe510a_m.jpg


This is Fomapan T200 film.
Triangles for sharpness, hexagonals for minimum grain.

The conclusion what is exactly a modern technology film is then for the real professionals.
My conclusion: Delta crystals are different then the Tmax crystals and this film is also slightly different. :wink:
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Well, whatever it is, t-grain or not, it's excellent film. I think we may be talking about two different films though- perhaps Foma makes T200 and Fomapan 200, as distinct emulsions. I scanned through their website and can find no mention of T200, only Fomapan Creative 200, and no mention in their literature of t-grain technology in the film. It's very confusing.
 

poutnik

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On the Czech version of their site (native language to the factory here :smile: ), there is also no mention of t-grain technology (or any technology on that matter...)
 

Fotohuis

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They had to rename their Fomapan T200 film since a few years under international Kodak pressure. In the new line Fomapan films and logo they have: Fomapan 100 Classic, 200 Creative and 400 Action. Still the same emulsions and indeed the T200 is fine, even in 35mm:

Dead Link Removed

@ Jiri: yes, that Czech version took me 10 years to translate :rolleyes:

Best regards,

Robert
 

srs5694

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Well, whatever it is, t-grain or not, it's excellent film. I think we may be talking about two different films though- perhaps Foma makes T200 and Fomapan 200, as distinct emulsions. I scanned through their website and can find no mention of T200, only Fomapan Creative 200, and no mention in their literature of t-grain technology in the film. It's very confusing.

I suspect that Fomapan T200 and Fomapan Creative 200 are the same film, just under two different names. I've got a bulk 100-foot roll of Fomapan T200, but every individual roll I've bought has been labeled "Creative 200." (Well, aside from Arista.EDU Ultra and Paterson Accupan 200 relabeled rolls.) IIRC, the edge markings for both varieties of the Foma-branded stuff read "T200," but I've have to check to be sure of that.
 

Fotohuis

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I have used only the RC Foma paper (Arista.edu ultra) and it was really flat. I couldn't get enough contrast no matter what I did. I gave up on it and have not tried the fiber paper. Hopefully someone else has some better experiences than I do.

Check your darkroom light. In 90% of all cases the cause of this problem. Fomaspeed Variant III PE/RC paper needs red darkroom light.

T200, Creative 200, Accupan 200 etc. all the same film.

Best regards,

Robert

(Foma distributor for the Netherlands)
http://www.foma.cz/foma/dokumenty/FotoDistribuce.asp
 
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