Arista EDU Ultra 400 120 film...what is it?

BetterSense · Mar 25, 2009

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/190420-Arista-EDU-Ultra-BandW-400-iso-120-size

I'm looking at adding many rolls of this to my freestylephoto cart because it's cheap, and fast. But I would like to know at least something about its characteristics other than nominal speed. Anyone know if this corresponds to another film emulsion out there? Have you tried it yourself and have impressions to add?

I wish Arista Premium 400 came in 120, but if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.

sidearm613 · Mar 25, 2009

Foma 400. I agree with you on the Arista Premium 120, because I'm not a fan of Fomapan, but I would love some cheap Tri-X

jmcd · Mar 25, 2009

That is Fomapan 400. It is a lovely film with great tone and beautiful grain. The base in the 120 curls impressively enough to make it somewhat hard to handle, unless it is dried in a humid environment. I find the actual speed is somewhere around 240 in D-76, 320 in Xtol, and 200 in HC-110.

RobertV · Mar 25, 2009

Indeed Fomapan 400. For this film take a speed enhanced developer which some are already mentioned: Xtol/Excel W27, DD-X, Diafine, Microphen and make an E.I. around 320.
You can clearly see on the dataskeet that the regular iso speed is around iso 200-320 with most commercial developers.
http://www.foma.cz/upload/foma/prilohy/F_pan_400_en.pdf

BTW interesing to know what are the specific differences between Xtol (5ltr.) and Excel (1 ltr.) because both are based on Ascorbic Acid.

bsdunek · Mar 25, 2009

BetterSense said:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/190420-Arista-EDU-Ultra-BandW-400-iso-120-size

I wish Arista Premium 400 came in 120, but if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.

Or horsemeat!

My question is, why do these films not have the speed they're rated at? Once you know, they you can compensate, but it just bugs me. Kodak, Ilford, etc. work pretty well in most situations at rated speed.

BetterSense · Mar 25, 2009

If I can't get 400 out of it with d76, I might change my opinion as to its value. 200 isn't terribly slow but Fuji Neopan 400 is only slightly more expensive at $3.09.

RobertV · Mar 25, 2009

Well that's a choice you can make.
Neopan 400 120 roll film (Fuji) is around Eur. 3,20 while Fomapan 400 is Eur. 2,50 (Compared with a single film buy.)
Iso 250 or iso 320 is not bad at all but maybe the Fomapan films should be mentioned: Fomapan Action 320, Fomapan Creative 160 and Fomapan Classic 100. Further it's the only company who is still producing B&W slide film: Fomapan R 100 (indeed a real iso 100 B&W slide film).

Creative IS the Fomapan 200. A nice film (iso 160) for architecture. Here one of my best (35mm) results with this film in Prague:

BetterSense · Mar 25, 2009

Actually, on freestylephoto the branded Fomapan 400 is the same price as the Fuji Neopan 400. Anyone know if Neopan 400 reaches box speed? I'm usually not a speed freak but when working with a camera with limited shutter speeds and a lens that likes to be stopped down, I find it easier to add ND sometimes than to add light.

jolefler · Mar 25, 2009

I'm using Neopan a lot lately.

And I shoot it at 400 with success. My developement times tend to be slightly longer than the published versions, though. I'm using Arista liquid (one shot0 at 1:9 @ 68 deg for nine minutes. The Arista liq. times seem fairly close to published times for D76 1:1 for your reference.

Jo

srs5694 · Mar 25, 2009

RobertV said:
BTW interesing to know what are the specific differences between Xtol (5ltr.) and Excel (1 ltr.) because both are based on Ascorbic Acid.

I've seen it implied that Fomadon Excel is a close clone of Kodak XTOL; however, I've never seen this confirmed in any way. FWIW, the Massive Dev Chart lists times of 9:30 and 15:00 for developing Fomapan 400 in Excel and XTOL, respectively, both at 1+1 dilution. That tends to contradict the claim that the developers are nearly identical; however, it could be that these times were arrived at by different people using different procedures and criteria for correct development, so it's not really very strong evidence. It's also conceivable that the stock solutions are at different concentration to begin with, so they might be exactly equivalent if they were diluted to different degrees.

Although there are few commercial ascorbate developers, there are a fair number of mix-it-yourself ascorbate formulas, including DS-10, DS-12, PC-TEA, PC-Glycol, E76, and others. These can vary quite a bit in character, development time, and so on. Thus, I wouldn't draw any strong conclusions simply based on the fact that two developers use ascorbic acid (or sodium ascorbate).

RobertV · Mar 25, 2009

Anyone know if Neopan 400 reaches box speed?

Well that depends on the developer.
Here an example (35mm) on iso 320:

Same camera + lens as above (M7 + Elmarit IV 2,8/28mm).

RobertV · Mar 25, 2009

..... and for the technical details:

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Fujifilm_Neopan400.pdf

Silverhead · Mar 26, 2009

RobertV said:
Well that's a choice you can make. Neopan 400 120 roll film (Fuji) is around Eur. 3,20 while Fomapan 400 is Eur. 2,50 (Compared with a single film buy.) Iso 250 or iso 320 is not bad at all but maybe the Fomapan films should be mentioned: Fomapan Action 320, Fomapan Creative 160 and Fomapan Classic 100. Further it's the only company who is still producing B&W slide film: Fomapan R 100 (indeed a real iso 100 B&W slide film).

Creative IS the Fomapan 200. A nice film (iso 160) for architecture. Here one of my best (35mm) results with this film in Prague:

Great shot, I've shot on that staircase that leads down from Prague Castle.

RobertV · Mar 26, 2009

Great shot, I've shot on that staircase that leads down from Prague Castle.

Thanks for your kind remark.

Here another one (opposite direction to the Castle).

.... and the wooden dolls near the Charles bridge.

All the same M7+Elmarit + Y-filter on Fomapan Creative 200, Czech made film.

Phillip P. Dimor · Mar 26, 2009

I've had the worst luck with the Arista.EDU Ultra 400 120 film, but the 100 speed stuff is excellent.

The Arista.EDU 100 sheet film is all I use, haven't found a single QC issue yet.
The 400 is closer to 200, if even (in my usage). It's grain is grainy. I like grain.
It's very thin (so is the 100) but if i'm shooting the 400 @ 200 anyhow, I mine as well shoot the 100 at box speed and get tighter grain/smoother tonalities.

Haven't tried foma papers except for that agfa-remake stuff which was outstanding.

Aurelien · Mar 26, 2009

Never worked with Arista.edu but I work a lot with Foma films. I love them.
Here is an example of a Fomapan 200 shot, rated at 160 and developped in Finol.

I also love the fomapan 400 which I rate at 400 and develop in XTOL

Anscojohn · Mar 26, 2009

jmcd said:
That is Fomapan 400. It is a lovely film with great tone and beautiful grain. The base in the 120 curls impressively enough to make it somewhat hard to handle, unless it is dried in a humid environment. I find the actual speed is somewhere around 240 in D-76, 320 in Xtol, and 200 in HC-110.

******
Hello All,
I have often wondered about these kind of "in between" Exposure Indexes.
Say, we have an ISO 400 film. Rate it at EI 200, we can open up one stop; or give one shutter speed increment lower. And if we have a lens with half-stop increments, we can rate it between EI 200 and ISO 400, or EI 300. Or a shutter which can be set between "full stop" settings.
I realize there are auto exposure modes with infinitely variable shutter speeds (f/stops, too???). But in the mechanical world of old-fashioned shutters and f/stops, can we, in a real sense, be rating films at much other than the equivalent of half stop EI changes in ratings?

trexx · Mar 26, 2009

Anscojohn said:
******
Hello All,
I realize there are auto exposure modes with infinitely variable shutter speeds (f/stops, too???). But in the mechanical world of old-fashioned shutters and f/stops, can we, in a real sense, be rating films at much other than the equivalent of half stop EI changes in ratings?

My LF shutters have no detents, and markings at 1/3 stops. So if I trust those marking I can get at least /13 stop resolution. With "At film plane metering" on my LF I can get 1/3 stop or better exposure. My 35mm, while having detents, I can set the lens in between stops if I choose. Shutter speeds have been tough until Aperture Priority with stepless shutter speeds, only about 30 years now.

fschifano · Mar 27, 2009

BetterSense said:
Actually, on freestylephoto the branded Fomapan 400 is the same price as the Fuji Neopan 400. Anyone know if Neopan 400 reaches box speed? I'm usually not a speed freak but when working with a camera with limited shutter speeds and a lens that likes to be stopped down, I find it easier to add ND sometimes than to add light.

Actually no. The repackaged Foma films from Freestyle carry the "Arista.EDU Ultra" label. Freestyle also carries Foma branded Fomapan 400 which is the same thing. The Foma branded film carries a price of $3.09 for a single 120 roll, the same price as Fuji Neopan 400. Switch labels on the Foma film to "Arista.EDU Ultra" and the price drops to $2.39/roll.

Does Arista.EDU Ultra, or for that matter Fomapan 400, actually reach the implied speed? I don't know, but I don't think so. I'm doing nice work with it developed in XTOL and exposed using an EI of 250 or 320 dependent upon lighting conditions. If I rate the film any faster the shadows go very thin, very quickly. Looking at the tech sheets for the film which you can find here seems to back up my own observation. How they can claim the ISO rating, which is a published standard for the film's sensitivity and not an arbitrary number like an exposure index, is anyone's guess. There must be some loophole in the standard that's being exploited here.

BetterSense · Mar 28, 2009

Actually no. The repackaged Foma films from Freestyle carry the "Arista.EDU Ultra" label. Freestyle also carries Foma branded Fomapan 400 which is the same thing. The Foma branded film carries a price of $3.09 for a single 120 roll, the same price as Fuji Neopan 400.

That's what I said:

on freestylephoto the branded Fomapan 400 is the same price as the Fuji Neopan 400

fschifano · Mar 28, 2009

...and stupid me, I read "on freestylephoto the re-branded Fomapan 400 is the same price as the Fuji Neopan 400." Time for some new glasses, I think.

BetterSense · Mar 28, 2009

I figured as much. I should have worded it clearer, because there could be confusion. BTW, can you shoot 220 in any camera that takes 120?

fschifano · Mar 28, 2009

Not always. I have a couple of Mamiya C220's that can use either. The pressure plate in the back is adjustable and there is a switch that you change from "120" to "220" on the body to adjust for the frame spacing and frame counter. The Mamiya 645 film magazines use inserts that are adjustable for 120 or 220. Mamiya RB and RZ cameras use separate backs and inserts for 120 and 220. Hasselblad makes separate backs andfor 120 and 220. I haven't tried, but I don't think you can use 220 in a 120 back and vice versa. I doubt that doing so would be catastrophic, and there might even be a work around if one chose to do so. I've never investigated because I don't use 220.

BetterSense · Mar 28, 2009

Oh. I forgot about 220's not having paper backing. In that case, I wouldn't be able to see the frame numbers through the little red window. Oops.

RobertV · Mar 28, 2009

BTW, can you shoot 220 in any camera that takes 120?

Indeed not always.
To be more in detail for the Mamiya 645 system: The inserts are different, the backs are the same. You can rebuild a 220 insert to 120 insert but you have to adjust the friction then (After removing some parts from the insert itself).
So not a too good idea.

For my Yashica Mat 124G you can switch over the pressure plate to another position.
Indeed 220 roll film has only backing paper in the beginning and at the end.

BTW Foma roll films has been switched from the "lick" glue paper to self adhesive sticker "a la Fuji". They have only 120 roll film assembly and are also doing some 120 roll film assembly for the Rollei-Maco company.

Best regards,

Robert

Arista EDU Ultra 400 120 film...what is it?

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