Arista EDU DX - "made in the UK" is the film stock Ilford again?

Robert Stone

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Hello,

I'm an educator and we supply film to the students. The recent Arista EDU film in the plastic cassettes was quite an ordeal (I know it's not entirely Freestyle's fault, but it caused a lot of issues for students). I noticed the new Arista 400 EDU DX stock mentioned that it's made in the UK... does anyone know if the film stock is Ilford like it used to be? Arista switched from Ilford to being a FOMA film stock years ago from what I understand.

They mention its ability to be very flexible in exposure and push-pull characteristics in the description which sounds a lot like HP5+ to me. Does anyone know?

Thanks everyone!

~Prof. Stone
 

ChrisArslain

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I’m a photo prof too and was wondering the same thing! I’m thinking Kentmere 400 because it’s cheaper.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I'm not a "prof" but merely a teacher. We switched from HP5 to Kentmere 400 as it was much cheaper. The kids couldn't give a rats behind if its grainier, and has inferior AH layer
 

loccdor

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I'd bet that it's Kentmere. Although Arista did used to sell a rebranded Tri-X which was an excellent value compared to on-brand, so it being HP5+ isn't entirely out of the question.
 

Donald Qualls

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loccdor said:
it being HP5+ isn't entirely out of the question.
Click to expand...

Except that, last I heard, Harman was still pledged not to offer Ilford branded films for rebranding (though apparently they are offering Kentmere that way).
 

Paul Howell

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Harmon inherited many emulsions from ILford, it could be any number of older emulsion including discontinued ILford branded such as HP4 or 3. Or could be a custom made for Freestyle. If you have access to a densitometer you can compare curves. I currently use Foma, then bought a few rolls of Kentmere 400 with the intent of switching to Kentmere but will get a few of the new Aristaedu 400. I tired the Aristapro 100, it has not rung my chimes. Aristapro 100 is made in Germany, could be movie or recon film, does have an anti haligent layer or dye.

When film collapsed around 2002 to 2009 Kodak rolls of TriX, Plus X were sold to Freestyle, ILford sold rolls of an older emulsion, a 100pan and 400 pan speed films as well. At the time ILford stated it would not sell rebanded ILford HP5, PF4 or PanF. That was before Harmont bought ILFord, still seems to be their policy. Harmont doessell rebanded Kentmere. As both Kodak and Harmont are at or near capacity I would be surprised if it is HP 5.
 

mshchem

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Can you post a photo of the cassette? Plastic cassettes may indicate that the film is being spooled someplace other than Harman's existing lines. Curious???
Good luck to your students!!
 

Waldo

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Unless someone has set up a new film production factory in the UK without telling many people, it must be manufactured by Harman. Is that enough to be considered Ilford film? I'm guessing not for most people. Though that hopefully means the quality control would be decent.
 

Paul Howell

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As I understand it the new version made in the U.K is in a metal cassette and is DX coded. Rebranded Forma were not DX coded.

Not sure what to make of it but Arista 400 matches development times in D76 stock and 1:1 with Kentmere 400. Kentmere 400 also comes in a metal cassette is is DX coded. Arista is about a dollar cheaper than Kentmere.
 

Ian Grant

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Harman is the original Ilford company, so it's not a case of inheriting anything, as they have been in continuous production for 145 years. The only emulsion based product they didn't make here in the UK was Cibachrome/Ilfochrome, and they had to negotiate the rights to make the base Cibachrome B&W emulsion, as that's the emulsion used for Harman Direct Positiver paper, now renamed as Ilford Direct Positive paper.

They would not go backwards and make an old Emulsion like HP4 which was a lack lustre film compared to HP3 and then HP5.

Ian
 

Lachlan Young

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Ian Grant said:
They would not go backwards and make an old Emulsion like HP4 which was a lack lustre film compared to HP3 and then HP5.

Ian
Click to expand...

I'll re-emphasise Ian's comment by pointing out that HP3/ HP4 and FP3 all are such old technology (in some cases they were superseded before M14 came on line, never mind moved to Mobberley) that making them would ensure their costs were greater than HP5+ per roll.

It'll either be Kentmere (which Harman has been very clear is available for rebranding - and seems to have intended such since they launched it) or a variant thereof (if they have the cash for the R&D etc). Given that Harman are able to make Kentmere at prices competitive with Fomapan 400 in many markets, but with first rate QC in comparison, it's not a huge surprise. At some point in the not so distant past, I recall Freestyle were trying to do some sort of Kentmere range anyway.
 

Paul Howell

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I guess I get confused, who bought Harman, and has it been sold again? I think that "new" Aristaedu 400 is Kentmere which makes sense ast Harman rebrands it for others. I do keep some Kentmere on hand for my DX only point and shoots, but have using Foma as my walk around film as it has the anti haligent layer which I need in my bright desert light.
 

MattKing

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Ian Grant said:
Harman is the original Ilford company,
Click to expand...

Except Harman doesn't own the Ilford name - they merely have a license to use it for some purposes.
The film they manufacture and brand as Ilford is indeed a direct evolution from the film that the entity known historically as Ilford.
But anything branded Arista - which is Freestyle's brand name - is simply something that Freestyle has had contract manufactured for them.
In the past, Harman has said that they wouldn't re-brand any film they have made and sold with the Ilford name on it. I would be surprised if they would change that policy.
Harman has been happy to contract manufacture for rebranding the films that Harman also happily sells under the brand name Kentmere, which Harman does own, having purchased the Kentmere company.
 

mshchem

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I will ask this, does this possibly have anything to do with the recent story of the Harman plant investing millions on new equipment for manufacturing/finishing film???
 

mshchem

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SIGNIFICANT ONGOING INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE OF PHOTOGRAPHIC FILM

<p>HARMAN TECHNOLOGY ANNOUNCES SIGNIFICANT ONGOING INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE OF PHOTOGRAPHIC FILM HARMAN technology Ltd, one of the world’s largest manufacturers of analogue photographic films, darkroom papers, and photo chemicals, has further reaffirmed their commitment to the future of analogue...
www.harmantechnology.com
 

MattKing

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mshchem said:
I will ask this, does this possibly have anything to do with the recent story of the Harman plant investing millions on new equipment for manufacturing/finishing film???
Click to expand...

Only to the extent that it has increased their capacity, which may mean their "bid" was lower than Foma's.
 

mshchem

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Can you confirm that these are plastic cassettes? These little things are very difficult to open. Requires pulling the film tongue out with a retriever.
 

mshchem

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Now that I think of it, DX coding almost requires a metal cassette. Metal cassette is specified on Freestyle's website.
 

cmacd123

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the E-mail I got from Freestle metioned the Arista EDU DX film made in the UK, and also that they will have the Arista EDU Ultra now once again in NON DX coded metal cassettes.

Freestyle has always been fairly good about identifying the Variants... my notes say:

Englands finest and English Profesional - made by Ilford
Arista II the next generation - AGFA.
Arista EDU - Forte hungary
Arista Premium, KODAK
Legacy Pro - Fuji
Arista EDU Ultra Foma, although the plactic version appers to have been spooled by Flic Film, who also apperently spoolded some Foma Pan directly for Foma.

the Arista EDU Ultra is suposed to now come in metal NON DX cassettes.
the new Arista EDU DX is also made in the UK. I will not be 100% convinced until I try a few rolls.

note that the Arista II and Arista EDU both came out very shortly before their respective makers left the industry. I had ordered a few rolls of each, and was not able to reorder by the time I was convinced that they would be useful.

My presonal theroy about the ARista Premium, was that it might have been Plus X and Tri-x reversal. wwhich is normaly sold in 16mm. Kodak had to change the reversal process to satify the EPA, and changed both of those products to a new formula.with new type numbers. it is plasible that they could have slit the remaining master rolls to 35mm and sent it to the "still" converting department, rather than declaring it scrap. the only nagging reason that i am thinking this was that Premium 100 was not 125.
 

cmacd123

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OH yes, the ARISTA PAN 100, in the not pryable metal cassettes marked "Made in Germany" does look a lot like the "Original Wolfen" Np100. and yes, the only sane way to get the film out of those is with a leader retriever, and the tail of the film is taped to a film stub.

as I say, every variant is named slightly different.
 
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