Argyrotype paper?

[PVia]

Does anyone have experience with different papers for argyrotypes?

I've read Mike Ware's suggestions, and some of those papers are hard to find or incredibly expensive, so I thought I'd ask around to see what others have found, knowing that the paper is a particularly important part in this process.

I believe Mike Ware mentions Aquapel internal sizing as something to look for...

 

[nze]

I do some on :
Arches platine
Cot 320
Cappelades
Arches cover
BFK rives
Similijapon
Lot of japanese tissue.
And it works.
Cranes kid finish and cover.

It does not work with lanaquarelle.
Depending on the sizing of the paper , the tone will change from warm chocolate brown to neutral tone.

 

[PVia]

Thanks, nze!

I was hoping that Arches cover would work (in that beautiful cream color...)

 

[nze]

SHould add that like kallitype, argyrotype toned quite well in platinum , gold and palladium. don't miss to try them it really make the print look lie a platinum print.
One of the advantage of the argyrotype sensitizer is that it works with more paper than does platinum/palladium. As I like paper I often use Kallitype or argyro to make toned print on special paper, instead of trying to make the paper work the sensitizer, I make the sensitizer work the paper.

 

[xtype]

For a lower cost alternative, try Weston at this link: http://www.crane.com/business/westonpapers/platinumpalladium.aspx

Attached is a pdf list of papers published in The Chrysotype Manual - generally good for all iron-based work.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Don't forget Rising Stonehenge. This paper works really well for most alt. processes.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Bump.

Has anyone tried New York Central Art Supply 100% cotton watercolor paper?

The story (as I understand it) is they make the paper themselves, thereby cutting out the 'middle man' resulting in lower prices.

They have a sale on right now where a 50 pack of 140lb 5x7 is $21.51 in US funds, and sizes go up to 22x30.

Premium 140lb & 300lb watercolor paper at an affordable price

New York Central’s Watercolor Paper is made on a slowly rotating cylinder mould. The machine evenly distributes long cotton fibers to make each durable sheet. Internal and external gelatin sizing prevents paint bleed-through and preserves color vibrancy. Each sheet is 100% Cotton and has a balanced grain that softens as a unit when wet. The paper can withstand a multitude of techniques, including wet color blending, paper scratching, and scrubbing.

The 5x7", 9x12", 11x14", 16x20", and 22x30" watercolor sheets come in reusable zip-top packaging designed to keep your paper clean. New York Central® Watercolor Paper is ideal for wet and dry media, especially watercolor, gouache, ink, and fluid acrylic paint.

New York Central® 100% Cotton Watercolor Paper Sheets & Rolls

Premium 100% Cotton Watercolor Paper at an Affordable PriceNew York Central’s Watercolor Paper is made on a slowly rotating cylinder mould. The machine evenly distributes long cotton fibers to make each durable sheet. Internal and external gelatin sizing prevents paint from bleeding through and...

www.jerrysartarama.com

 

[koraks]

The story (as I understand it) is they make the paper themselves

No way. Papermaking isn't exactly a cottage industry - at least not the paper that retails for such a modest price as this. This is mass production, so it's done by a manufacturer. It's true though that many manufacturers will happily make batches of paper to "your" specifications (e.g. "give me a 100% rag 250gsm paper with internal sizing" and then the manufacturer will work out the details for you). If you consider that as "making it themselves", OK. I'd call it 'contract manufacturing'. If it's that, to begin with, of course. There's also a good chance it's not custom made at all and simply one of the default/generic papers the manufacturer carries and it's sold under several brands by whomever wants to pay for it.

The fact that the price is modest necessarily means that they don't make it themselves!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

No way. Papermaking isn't exactly a cottage industry - at least not the paper that retails for such a modest price as this. This is mass production, so it's done by a manufacturer. It's true though that many manufacturers will happily make batches of paper to "your" specifications (e.g. "give me a 100% rag 250gsm paper with internal sizing" and then the manufacturer will work out the details for you). If you consider that as "making it themselves", OK. I'd call it 'contract manufacturing'. If it's that, to begin with, of course. There's also a good chance it's not custom made at all and simply one of the default/generic papers the manufacturer carries and it's sold under several brands by whomever wants to pay for it.

The fact that the price is modest necessarily means that they don't make it themselves!

Okay... my bad...it’s a rebranded product.

Currently sniffing around to find out who manufactures it. Probably won’t find out for sure (confidentiality will be tight) but there may be some educated guesses.

 

[koraks]

It may be possible to find out who makes it, or perhaps the names of a few 'usual suspects'. The question then remains what this would tell you. It doesn't mean it'll be necessarily identical to a different paper of the same manufacturer. For instance, imagine it's (random example) Arches, it wouldn't make this paper automatically related to, say, Platine. It may still be totally different in very notable ways - depending on which process(es) you intend to use it for.

And even if you have a definitive 'match' with a manufacturer, it'll be difficult to find out anything specific about the paper. It's uncommon/rare/unique in this industry to publish anything at all about the actual specifications of the paper beyond the major specs you can already see on the product page. For instance, it's generally impossible to obtain any concrete information on which sizing is used, or how much, and if the paper is buffered, which chemical is used and how much of it. Let alone anything specific w.r.t. the provenance of the fibers, etc.

So information about the actual manufacturer generally doesn't yield much more than a "huh, what do you know" without having much predictive value w.r.t. printing characteristics.

Has Christina Anderson included this paper yet in her recent survey? I haven't kept track of her recent work in this area. If anyone can say anything meaningful about a particular paper, it'd be her.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

It may be possible to find out who makes it, or perhaps the names of a few 'usual suspects'. The question then remains what this would tell you. It doesn't mean it'll be necessarily identical to a different paper of the same manufacturer. For instance, imagine it's (random example) Arches, it wouldn't make this paper automatically related to, say, Platine. It may still be totally different in very notable ways - depending on which process(es) you intend to use it for.

And even if you have a definitive 'match' with a manufacturer, it'll be difficult to find out anything specific about the paper. It's uncommon/rare/unique in this industry to publish anything at all about the actual specifications of the paper beyond the major specs you can already see on the product page....

Which is why I asked here if anyone had used it for argyrotypes.

I ask because shipping is expensive (I'm an afternoon drive south of Hyder, Alaska) and it's a two day drive south or east to stores with a good selection.

 

[drew tanner]

It’s on Christina’s Massive Paper Chart. I won’t say more, as her document is more than worth the modest price of admission, and I can’t fathom the work she put into all of those tests.

It’s big… it’s huge… it’s The MASSIVE paper chart for alternative processes – AlternativePhotography.com

www.alternativephotography.com

 

[fgorga]

I took a quick look at Chris Anderson's massive, master alt process paper spreadsheet (see: https://www.alternativephotography.com/massive-paper-chart/). It looks like the NY Central paper you asked about should work for argyrotype.

Also, I agree with others who say that this paper is not made by NY Central. Papermills are expensive to buld and operate. Papers such as this are either rebranded stock from a papermill or, less likely, a paper made specifically for NY Central under contract to mill.

One down side of this sort of bargain paper is that its properties are subject to change without warning. Folks selling this type of paper are after the lowest price not consistency between lots.

I see that Drew is a faster typist than I am!!!

While I am back typing, I'll put in a plug for buying the 'full' version of the spreadsheet and supporting folks who do research such as this.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

It’s on Christina’s Massive Paper Chart. I won’t say more, as her document is more than worth the modest price of admission, and I can’t fathom the work she put into all of those tests.

It’s big… it’s huge… it’s The MASSIVE paper chart for alternative processes – AlternativePhotography.com

www.alternativephotography.com

Thanks.

Yup...mind boggling amount of dedication/effort.

Have stumbled by it many times but haven't uploaded it...will pay to play

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...I'll put in a plug for buying the 'full' version of the spreadsheet and supporting folks who do research such as this.