Are you an RPS member?

Where's London?

Why is overseas membership cheaper than UK membership?

Andy K said:

Why is overseas membership cheaper than UK membership?

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Not sure, could it be that they don't get to enjoy all the benefits of UK members?

Sandeha Lynch said:

Where's London?

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Its that really big village at the other end of the M4 to you.

Golly gosh! They're having a Photoshop Roadshow! There's an incentive to join.

I thought that's what the "P" in RPS stood for.:confused:

delphine said:

But keep the thread to RPS related discussions

My 2 cents.

PS: do consider going to the "big meets". I did participate to the gathering in Kent, it was a great experience that I highly recommend.

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The RPS is different to a local camera club, which usually has a local catchment area. It is an international society, a charitable staus and Royal Charter . It had membership all around the UKand also chapters in the USA, Canada, Australia, Hong Kong and I beleive in China.
It has 2 hats too: A photographic 'club' and a learned society. As such, it has 2 journals - the RPS journal about society matters and issues of interest to the pro & am membership. It also has a separate scientific journal. Both are availble to members although most only take the Journal as the other one can be opaque and of limited interests to non scientists.
As it has a national membership it runs active regions around the country with their own programmes, and inevitably as they are run by members some regions are more active that others. Most hold a range of events covered by the different interest groups, with a mix of workshops and weekend 'Days of Phptpgraphy'.

The distinctions are very popular and distinctions workshops are mounted around the country to help would be applicants.
I was sorry to read about David's bad experience with his distinction and I would hope that is not typical. Possibly a long time agao David? I have been involved with 2 of the distinctions panels for some 20 years and many improvements have been incorporated over recent years. On the ones I have been involved with (Visual Art, and Photographic Printing) we do try and give useful feedback and if we think it helpful we arrange a panel member to make contact and advise.
Tim

delphine said:

But keep the thread to RPS related discussions

My 2 cents.

PS: do consider going to the "big meets". I did participate to the gathering in Kent, it was a great experience that I highly recommend.

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The RPS is different to a local camera club, which usually has a local catchment area. It is an international society, a charitable staus and Royal Charter . It had membership all around the UKand also chapters in the USA, Canada, Australia, Hong Kong and I beleive in China.
It has 2 hats too: A photographic 'club' and a learned society. As such, it has 2 journals - the RPS journal about society matters and issues of interest to the pro & am membership. It also has a separate scientific journal. Both are availble to members although most only take the Journal as the other one can be opaque and of limited interests to non scientists.
As it has a national membership it runs active regions around the country with their own programmes, and inevitably as they are run by members some regions are more active that others. Most hold a range of events covered by the different interest groups, with a mix of workshops and weekend 'Days of Photography'.

The distinctions are very popular and distinctions workshops are mounted around the country to help would be applicants.
I was sorry to read about David's bad experience with his distinction and I would hope that is not typical. Possibly a long time agao David? I have been involved with 2 of the distinctions panels for some 20 years and many improvements have been incorporated over recent years. On the ones I have been involved with (Visual Art, and Photographic Printing) we do try and give useful feedback and if we think it helpful we arrange a panel member to make contact and advise.
Tim

tim rudman said:

I was sorry to read about David's bad experience with his distinction and I would hope that is not typical. Possibly a long time agao David? I have been involved with 2 of the distinctions panels for some 20 years and many improvements have been incorporated over recent years. On the ones I have been involved with (Visual Art, and Photographic Printing) we do try and give useful feedback and if we think it helpful we arrange a panel member to make contact and advise.
Tim

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Without making things too personal, the incident in question happened about 8 years ago, the chairman of the (VA) panel was a past RPS president, the person who finally deigned to view the thumbnails was a person who was VA panel chairman for a period of over 20 years. I attended an advisory day once run by the former of the above individuals; a French girl brought a panel obviously influenced by Man Ray, the person in question appeared not to know who Man Ray was and gave me a filthy look when I spoke to the owner of the work directly and asked about her influences. I tried to say a few words of encouragement to her since she was obviously rather thunderstruck by the reception she had got.

I made a previous application to the contemporary panel and received a tape of the commentary. A requirement was that I submit a statement of up to 300 words, I wrote 295. As the chairman was about halfway through reading this, one of the panel piped up and asked why the statement was so long, opining that people who wrote overlong statements (in fact the length asked for) were incapable of expressing themselves visually. This intrusion should have been slapped down by the panel chairman but wasn't, and clearly influenced the mood of the panel.

I doubt if I will ever make another RPS distinctions application. Panels which represent slight and non-threatening variations of what has been done before seem to have the best chance, others very little. My watchword (borrowed from William Eggleston) is "I am at war with the obvious." Whether I succeed in this aim is not for me to say, but I have seen and heard enough to persuade me that I am not the "right sort of chap" the RPS is looking for.

Regards,

David

Mmmm... I gave up my membership of the RPS around five years ago and had to hand back my LRPS. I gave up membership because I realised that I gained absolutely nothing from them that benefited my photography. I was gaining far more from local club membership. The local scene was a lot closer to me and was an awful lot cheaper to support.

delphine

I was thinking about your situation and wondering if you know of photofusion - if not it might be of interest to you.

Gina Glover set up photofusion and she offers portfolio advice sessions. I had a session with her about 8 years ago when my youngest was one year old. I was struggling to find time for photography and really had little idea of whether what I was doing was worthwhile or whether I should keep going at all seriously with it. She was a major influence in making me value what I was doing and take it forward – although she rightly advised against rushing into studying full-time, if at all (I did choose to do so a few years later, but after thinking carefully about my reasons and the right course).

She offers an initial session and then a follow- up session to see how you've absorbed issues from the first, moved on, changed, etc, any time within a year of the first session. In the event my life was pretty busy I never got to around to arranging a follow-up session but that was mainly because the first was so crucial and effective (basically in validating what I was doing and suggesting a couple of directions).

Gina is a very experienced photographer and also knows a lot about various full-time study options in London, (maybe part-time too) if you might be interested in taking that route.

Also there are lots of part-time course around (eg A level, some of the City & Guilds) and also distance-learning courses including at degree level. It's worth being aware as stated above that the RPS letters are awards not qualifications so you can't use them if you are no longer an active subscribing member. I do believe the process is of paramount importance when moving forward, rather than the 'product' – i.e. qualifications or letters. If you do go for 'end product', the process is obviously more tangible, with courses, as long as you are careful to choose the right one for you. I'm sure there are some excellent mentors within the RPS to be found - not least on apug - but there are also other ways forward especially if there isn't such a mentor available.

edit p.s. Heather - yes, a meet-up in the New Year could be good, I'll look out for your thread...

Dear Tim,

Thank you for your informative input.

Catem,

I used to be a member of photofusion, and used their darkroom (very nice). I moved on to Zoom in thenafter. Now I am setting up a darkroom at mine (doing the flooring over xmas)
I would not have thought of considering the portfolio sessions, because I view photography as my hobby, and I thought the portfolio session would be geared for people going pro.
However your description and your experience of it, seem to indicate that this could be a very good option for me.

I think everybody's approach is different. I was/am considering RPS for its process rather than for the letters/awards, because I am looking for a structured approach and a chance to have constructive feedbacks.
I am unsure at this point how much I would gain from the RPS' in this respect.

As you pointed out, there are other options.

ShaunH said:

Mmmm... I gave up my membership of the RPS around five years ago and had to hand back my LRPS. I gave up membership because I realised that I gained absolutely nothing from them that benefited my photography. I was gaining far more from local club membership. The local scene was a lot closer to me and was an awful lot cheaper to support.

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The cost of RPS membership seems to be a significant factor to many, and a hundred quid a year does indeed sound a lot, but looking at it as two quid (less than a pint of beer) a week doesn't sound half as bad (though some will no doubt say the beer would be preferable!)

Steve

delphine said:

I would not have thought of considering the portfolio sessions, because I view photography as my hobby, and I thought the portfolio session would be geared for people going pro.

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I don't think it's about going pro so much as maybe having a reasonably coherent approach to what you are producing, so that the discussion can be meaningful. Perhaps quite a lot of people she sees do want to break into being commercial photographers, but she is also very interested in personal work, and was very encouraging that I should stick with the kind of work I was doing at that time, and not go down the digital route just because it was there. In fact I had the feeling she was relieved I wasn't yet another person want to get into advertising or fashion! I was also doing a small amount of paid portrait work at that time and she was very helpful in the practical advice she gave me. Anyway - just a thought. It worked well for me at that particular time.

The RPS did have special interest groups (do they still?) to which one could subscribe for a nominal extra amount. I belonged to a print folio for a few years and found it enjoyable and helpful. I now support The Postal Photographic Club and gain immensely from the interchange of ideas and critique regarding our circulated prints.

Dave Miller said:

I belonged to a print folio for a few years and found it enjoyable and helpful.

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Possibly others can chime in with reference to the folio interest group. But it was not listed on the RPS website when I perused it. So I am assuming that it does not exist any longer then.

delphine said:

Possibly others can chime in with reference to the folio interest group. But it was not listed on the RPS website when I perused it. So I am assuming that it does not exist any longer then.

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It's possible they got the elbow in favour of Regional Group meetings, something that was introduced after I ceased to be a member.

I do hope my post on this thread didn't sound preachy. It wasn't meant to. I was unwell with food poisoning when I wrote it (perhaps explains why I seem to have sent it twice!) and reading back now that I am better I do find it rather terse and prescriptive instead of descriptive.
Oh dear, David, I can understand your frustation! I hope that you were just very unfortunate, but obviously I don't know anything more than you tell me. My experience over the years has not been the same. I know many panel members go out of their way to help people along, and as there is always a mix of personalities in such things, no doubt some don't. I do know that a great deal of effort has been made over the last half dozen years or so to reshape and reform - the distictions in particular.
Like every other organization, the RPS is not for everyone, but what is? It does have many thousands of members though and clearly provides what they are looking for at some level. Many people hate camera clubs, many love them. It's horses for courses.

I think Catem's comments are very useful. Work review can be very helpful in clarifying one's purpose and focus, whether hobbyist or aspiring professional - it's equally imortant on a personal satisfaction level.

Re Dave's comments, portfolios can also be a great help - if you find one with the right ethic and the right people. If you just get a series of 'nice pic' comments, you may as well save the postage and buy more paper! I have been in both types in the distant past and gained much benefit from some but nil from others. I think the RPS do still have them but they would be under the groups (some) rather than the main Society. The VA group run one I believe, not sure about the digital or creative groups, they may do.

best wishes
Tim

Dear Tim,

I hope that you are feeling better (food poisoning is no fun) and I thank you for taking the time to write again on the subject.

To all,

Everybody's input has been very valuable, and some good recommendations were made. I am taking your feedback away as food for thoughts.
As pointed out, there are various options, it is a matter for me to find which one is right for me.
For the time being, I'll finish with my last professional exam (next few days), do my flooring:rolleyes:, and put together the darkroom, then in the new year, I'll decide about my personal approach to improving my photographic skills.
I think I rather like the idea of the advice session that Catem pointed out because it is tailored and may be less of a commitment. It gives me more time to think about the RPS process

Thank you to all,

Delphine

tim rudman said:

Oh dear, David, I can understand your frustation! I hope that you were just very unfortunate, but obviously I don't know anything more than you tell me. ...

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The frustration is vanishingly small. My background in photography is numerous years as a pro in my youth (when I became an ABIPP) and then a 20-year "sabbatical" until I took up photography again seriously around 1994. My intention at that time was to try to make money as an art photographer and possibly teach workshops. I therefore decided to try for an FRPS as a way of motivating myself and perhaps acquiring a distinction which meant more to the average photography enthusiast than anything from the BIPP.

I was expecting the art market to be hard to crack, but I didn't realise how hard. Moreover, I learned that, to have any chance of success, I would need to make my work as individual as possible, and unlike work that had been done before - in all fairness, I can't really expect the RPS to demand extreme originality in distinction submissions, even if it were able to assemble a panel of cutting-edge practitioners competent to judge this, since the number of successful applications would inevitably be very small and in any case many enthusiasts find pleasure in the craft aspects of photography and aren't concerned wth total orginality. As regards workshops, I realized that digital imaging dominates today and that, although I have a reasonably good working knowledge of this, I am no Barry Thomas and have no desire to make the commitment necessary to acquire the necessary level of knowledge. I have had to recognise that my area of highest expertise, studio photography with LF cameras, is not one that enthusiasts are clamouring for!

I have therefore quite happily accepted that a further RPS distinction may not be for me. Notwithstanding this, I did feel that the way in which I saw distinction panels operating, wthout any wish to overgeneralize, was pretty shabby!

Regards,

David

Thank you Delphine, I'm fine now (and lighter!) although I was a bit toxic there for a while.

It wasn't my intention to champion the RPS actually, although I do think it does a good job in many areas. All successful organizations (and it has been going for a long time) be they RPS, APUG, camera clubs, postal portfolios etc, should never IMHO try to be all things to all people. They have their vision and mission and if they do that well they will fulfil the needs and wants of some but disappoint others, for a variety of reasons. They will always have dissenting voices (as witnessed occasionally on APUG). This is not always a bad thing but a reflection of the fact that people have different needs and expectations, some of which are occasionally unrealistic. It's also not a bad thing because these voices can also be justified and should be seen as a wake up call! If they respond effectively there will usually be a cycle of ups and downs in their history with growth as the ups win out.

I am still sorry that you had such bad experiences David. I also know that the RPS has radically overhauled its distictions panels in recent years, introducing new guidelines, assessments, moderators, personel changes and a second stage Fellowship review board.
Incidentally, I don't agree that originality is not viewed favourably on the panels. My experience is that originality is not common (surprise!) but is most welcome when it does occur in a submission. It really gets the applicant off to a good start - but it isn't enough on its own. The other criteria (which vary hugely from one distinction to another) must also be satisfied. These are not always fully understood by applicants who work in isolation and submit work which is in one way or another not suitable or up to standard for that panel. This is why the RPS runs distinctions workshops, where prospective applicants can have an assessment and constructive advice on their work. All applicants are strongly encouraged to attend at least one of these before submitting work.

I think an especially valuable feature of working for a distinction is not so much the letters obtained, but the personal progress and growth that can take place whilst working towards it. Particularly when I was chair of the printing panel, I saw on numerous occasions aspiring and determined applicants, who brought work to me for advice, grow photographically out of all recognition from where they started, by the time they got their distinction. I think this was far more valuable than the letters they earned. This is because they became more self critical, more focused and developed a much clearer vision of what their work was about - and this is the same process as the portfolio review that Catem suggested.

best wishes
Tim

A very good summary Tim, glad to hear that you are on the mend.

tim rudman said:

I think an especially valuable feature of working for a distinction is not so much the letters obtained, but the personal progress and growth that can take place whilst working towards it. Particularly when I was chair of the printing panel, I saw on numerous occasions aspiring and determined applicants, who brought work to me for advice, grow photographically out of all recognition from where they started, by the time they got their distinction. I think this was far more valuable than the letters they earned. This is because they became more self critical, more focused and developed a much clearer vision of what their work was about. ....
Tim

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And had I known about the possibility at the time, I for one would certainly have liked to take advantage of that ...

Thanks for your considered replies Tim (and especially when not well) - it's always invaluable to get peoples' experiences and thoughts who are 'on the inside'.

I wonder if you think there would be more a place within the RPS for mentoring, without distinctions as an end result? I think distinctions can be very valuable as a goal (and a deserved reward) but I also have a sense that quite a number of members or potential members are not necessarily interested in the letters - more the journey you describe (which is a continuous one, whatever stage you are at, after all). I don't expect you to know the answer to the question (and no need to answer it really), but it's something I've wondered about.

best wishes,
Cate (p.s. everyone is permitted to drop the 'm' if they like )

catem said:

Cate (p.s. everyone is permitted to drop the 'm' if they like )

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Hilarious ! I thought Catem was an unusual masculin name lol

tim rudman said:

I am still sorry that you had such bad experiences David. I also know that the RPS has radically overhauled its distictions panels in recent years, introducing new guidelines, assessments, moderators, personel changes and a second stage Fellowship review board.
Incidentally, I don't agree that originality is not viewed favourably on the panels. My experience is that originality is not common (surprise!) but is most welcome when it does occur in a submission. It really gets the applicant off to a good start - but it isn't enough on its own. The other criteria (which vary hugely from one distinction to another) must also be satisfied. These are not always fully understood by applicants who work in isolation and submit work which is in one way or another not suitable or up to standard for that panel. This is why the RPS runs distinctions workshops, where prospective applicants can have an assessment and constructive advice on their work. All applicants are strongly encouraged to attend at least one of these before submitting work.

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Tim, I greatly respect your expertise as a printer, I sense that you are a nice guy and I fear that if I gave you a full and honest reply, it would seem to be staggeringly rude and ungracious, given the openness you have displayed in your postings here. At the risk of being accused of boundless arrogance (which I have been, more than once, on APUG), let me just say that, on the basis of my 40-year professional career in the media, as a photographer, technical writer on photography, commissioning editor and photographic exhibition curator, I would back my experience and judgement over anyone (and I do mean anyone) I have met who was associated with the RPS. Sorry, but there it is.

Regards,

David