Are you "afraid" of the chemicals.?

Got new ifos from a friend who is modelling enthusiast - We personaly gues know your a/c was (from type) :
RB-26C Invader (67th tactical reconaissance wing)
I am a little sure we got you now PE.
.......?

with regards

Since there are no tail markings or uniform markings in that photo, you had to look at another photo. But, to fly, I cannot be in the 67th TRW. That is a sort of administrative unit. I would have to be in a TRS (Squadron). The 67th was connected to Area 51 FYI. It no longer exists AFAIK.

Please let us return to the OT and take this offline. This thread is not about me.

PE

Previously we managed to dig up some LD50 data for hydroquinone,pyrogallol and pyrocatechol though many links are broken now:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/index.php?threads/recommendations-for-buying-pyrogallol.136124/page-2
However even the long term effects of skin absorption on mice and rats we did not find.
Likely the most detailed are the EU studies but these are hard to locate.
This thread probably relates mainly to hydroquinone in the print developer.

Photo Engineer said:

Since there are no tail markings or uniform markings in that photo, you had to look at another photo. But, to fly, I cannot be in the 67th TRW. That is a sort of administrative unit. I would have to be in a TRS (Squadron). The 67th was connected to Area 51 FYI. It no longer exists AFAIK.

Please let us return to the OT and take this offline. This thread is not about me.

PE

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Yes of cause thanks for the info - back to the topicks.

with regards

Me, after 55 years of exposure to chems in my darkroom.

Rick A said:

Me, after 55 years of exposure to chems in my darkroom.
View attachment 187180

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But Rick:
What did you look like before the 55 years of exposure to chems in my darkroom.

MattKing said:

But Rick:
What did you look like before the 55 years of exposure to chems in my darkroom.

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Rick A said:

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Ahh from Three Mile Island

Soeren said:

Ahh from Three Mile Island

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Funny you would say that, I used to live near there, and fished around the island quite a bit.

Alan Johnson said:

Previously we managed to dig up some LD50 data for hydroquinone,pyrogallol and pyrocatechol though many links are broken now:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/index.php?threads/recommendations-for-buying-pyrogallol.136124/page-2
However even the long term effects of skin absorption on mice and rats we did not find.
Likely the most detailed are the EU studies but these are hard to locate.
This thread probably relates mainly to hydroquinone in the print developer.

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The data I have is about 1.5 g /Kg LD for Rabbits for Pyro. Source, Merck.

PE

Yes indeed some "special" chemicals in darkroom are toxic to humans.
A couple of them as here mentioned does have a lethal dosis (most infos are given in regard of oral intakte ).
But in worst cases chems can react and produce toxic gas. (so some infos are in concern to inhalation).
In general - for example with a correct formulation of a developer bath - you have to drink some liters of the developer AT ONE TIME to reach this lethal dosis and don't forget it is more in concern of a personal weight.Therefore this danger is to avoid to children (absolute out of reach !!!).
Perhaps it would help a bit to categorize
darkroom chemistry not from specific chems because if someone is not so familiar terrible accidents from mixing chems are indeed possible.
May be this here will help to beginners, experts may also smile a bit about:

1) ordinary chems you can buy as a product from manufacturers like D-76,
X-tol,ID11 and others.

Group A : Bw developing
Group B : Color developing,Bw reversal

Group A is mostly with an absolut minimum danger to human health.

Group B can cause problems if your workflow in darkroom gets out of control.

The same different categoration one may
see with RAW chemicals.

Group A : raw chemicals wich are easy to get everywhere.

Group B : raw chemicals hard to get, impossible to get due to modern regulation.

In general : The harder to get - the more
possible danger to human health is given
within these chems.

But this is no reason to get in fear.
Just look in simple household chems.

If the workflow of your wife (cleaning the kitchen after you have cooked)
gets out of control - terrible accidents from mixing household chems with drinks may also be possible to reach lethal dosis. (just in theory of cause).


with regards

Forgetting to say - the more danger caused of workflow in kitchen out of control is caused by cooking the food
by some wifes - Well - I am not having to say from wifes I personaly know............
with regards

Oh yeah such as careless handling of as dangerous substance as diprotonium monooxide usually used for extraction purpose

Be extra careful in the handling of dihydro-monoxide.

Rick A said:

Be extra careful in the handling of dihydro-monoxide.

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You're all wet.

I treat all chemicals with respect. Have known way too many artiste types who utterly ruined their health being macho. Nitrile gloves are cheap. But now that I'm retired, and no longer have an office in the same warehouse as tons of smelly imported plywood and other outgassing building materials, it's nice to discover that my sensitivity to RA4 color chem has significantly decreased. Cumulative amine exposure, I presume.

DREW WILEY said:

I treat all chemicals with respect. Have known way too many artiste types who utterly ruined their health being macho. Nitrile gloves are cheap. But now that I'm retired, and no longer have an office in the same warehouse as tons of smelly imported plywood and other outgassing building materials, it's nice to discover that my sensitivity to RA4 color chem has significantly decreased. Cumulative amine exposure, I presume.

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Well "sensitivity" to some chemicals
is a bad problem - but I see (sorry for saying) a main difference to deseases caused from chems.
A sensitivity (alergic reaction ) may caused from so much different types of (alergenic) stuff also chems that it seams impossible to give warnings to avoid them.I guess to you it has to do with ppd (inclueded RA4 developers).

with regards

Rick A said:

Be extra careful in the handling of dihydro-monoxide.

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The lethal dosis should also be mentioned - you forget to say : 37l / 10min.) ......

with regards

Soeren said:

Oh yeah such as careless handling of as dangerous substance as diprotonium monooxide usually used for extraction purpose

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Sorry to correct you - perhaps you mean
Pu2C3 (Diplutonium Tricarbide)
but I guess from this point our little discussion is monitored. ....

with regards

Vaughn said:

You're all wet.

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Sensitivities can easily become lethal. There is a tipping point. I've known lab owners who couldn't even enter their own business without ending up in an ambulance due to a builfup in RA4 sensitivity over the years. Some lab folk ended up having substantial amounts of scar tissue removed from their lungs due to excessive exposure to Ciba bleach (H2SO4 - not exactly benign!) I heard the same line over and over again in this University, Biotech, and Pharmaceutical town, "I've worked wish hit fer yearsh an yersh an it hashn't hurt me a bit", as their hands trembled and their faces looked like masks. Some of them never made it to their mid 50's. MSDS sheets have a purpose, and so do gloves. Besides, they're easier to rinse off than skin and contaminate something adjacent. Most ordinary b&w sink tray chem is mild, but not necessarily everything we use. As for anyone who puts their bare fingers into color chem .... you might end up really regretting it someday.

Rick, I believe OHSA now requires both a mask and a snorkel in that occupation.

Drew -- I agree. Seen similar situations (printing industry/solvents).

Rick A said:

Be extra careful in the handling of dihydro-monoxide.

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Inhale that stuff and it can kill you!

Dr. Richard Henry's book, Controls in Black and White Photography, has a great chapter on Darkroom safety. Dr. Henry was both a Doctor doctor, M.D. and a clinical researcher with 45 years of experience in photography and research chemistry. He was also the corporate safety officer at a very large firm (from his bio). It's a good read, I first read it on inter-library loan and finally got my own copy.

trendland said:

Sorry to correct you - perhaps you mean
Pu2C3 (Diplutonium Tricarbide)
but I guess from this point our little discussion is monitored. ....

with regards

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No I meant what I wrote but maybe the joke don't translate well. It's also known as di hydrogen monooxide or more commonly as water.

I am not afraid of chemicals but I tend to be cautious when I handle them. I am wearing nitrile gloves and since I know that I am sensitive to fixer, I try to wash of splashes as soon as possible.

In my opinion it is pretty useless to be afraid of chemicals, your hands may start to shake and you spill more of it than you might have spilled in the first place. Being totally careless, on the other hand, is also not a good idea. It is important to show some healthy respect for potentially hazardous chemicals and to handle them cautiously. To paraphrase one professors at my university: “It is always a good idea to know what you are touching, before you touch it.”

As mentioned earlier in this thread, dust and fumes can be harmful too. A short story based on that:
A friend of mine worked as a ceramist. Prior to that she attained a polytechnic school for art and design specialising in ceramics. She was a freelancing artist and was able to make a living from it. After two or three years she got asthmatic attacks and rashes all over her body when she entered her atelier. Although she had paid attention to wear a dust respirator while working with dried pieces and to keep the place clean, she developed an allergy to the unfired glazes and the fumes emerging the kiln while firing. In the end she had to give up her profession.

Yes I know the chemicals involved are entirely different. I want to emphasize that if one develops an allergy, it can get that bad that one has to give up hobby or work.

-martin-