Are these pics underexposed?

Bobkins · Apr 20, 2015

Hi Guys,
pics taken inside the boat looks like these

is it underexposed?

used film -Kodak 400
camera -f2.8 - 4, 1/1000, light meter broken

which settings should I use?

outside all ok

thanks!

Bobkins · Apr 20, 2015

these ones taken outside
f5.6 -8, 1/1000

looks ok? :confused:

snapguy · Apr 20, 2015

under

The first batch of film is underexposed. There's no way I can tell you, from my viewpoint in the California desert, what your exposure should be. You need a light meter. Hand held ones don't cost that much. The ones taken outdoors look okay. The shot of the negative seems to indicate you're not fixing the negs long enough as well, or your fixer is shot. Good luck.

LJH · Apr 20, 2015

Sunny 16 says you should shoot this film at 1/400 (1/500 camera speak) at f16. At 1/1000th, you're down to about f9 in sunny daylight.

To shoot at 1/1000th at f4, you're only 2.5 stops less than a sunny day exposure. Without knowing the exact lighting you were in, it is still fair to say that you were well short of that amount of light, so, yes, underexposed.

Why were you shooting at 1/1000th? You could safely shoot at 1/125th if you're using a 50mm lens (slower if wider, or if you practice your technique).

LJH · Apr 20, 2015

PS,

+1 for stuffed fixing.

David Allen · Apr 20, 2015

From what I can see from your scans these images appear to be severely underexposed and over-developed.

There are just too many variables to consider to give you any really meaningful advice.

However, depending upon where you live and whether the sun is behind you or to one side, you would need to give an absolute minimum of 1/125 @ f16 with an ISO 400 film to achieve a decent level of shadow detail - if that is important to you.

Best idea is to get a hand-held meter and learn to use it.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Bobkins · Apr 20, 2015

thank you guys!

The shot of the negative seems to indicate you're not fixing the negs long enough as well, or your fixer is shot

images appear to be severely underexposed and over-developed.

little confused as developing time = fixing time

and over-developed - but outdoor images don't look over-developed? (it is the same film roll), so problem only in underexpose?

David Allen · Apr 20, 2015

The outdoor images have a range from black to white BUT there is absolutely no shadow detail.

This means that you have underexposed the film and also overdeveloped it. Why? - well if a film is underexposed but you have tones from black to white you have processed too much. This is in effect what people refer to as 'pushing' film which actually means 'I will except a loss of shadows to use a higher ISO for the film but I still want a full range of tones' and to achieve this you overdevelop the film to stretch the tonal range back to what a properly exposed and developed film would look like.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

ic-racer · Apr 20, 2015

Bobkins said:
which settings should I [have] use?
!

Severe under exposure. Give 2 more stops of exposure in those conditions and try again.

bernard_L · Apr 20, 2015

Indoor pics are clearly underexposed, which can be inferred both from the lack of shadow detail in the pics and, even better, from the direct view of the negative. And, even without looking at the pics 1/000 f/4 is way too little exposure for indoors.
As concerns the outside pics. 1/1000 f/5.6-f/8 is equivalent to 1/250 f/11-f/16 which should be OK as long as open shadow areas are not too significant. Lack of shadow detail inside the tunnel is not too surprising; rendering both the sunlit outside and the tunnel interior is a challenge beyond basic exposure learning. Ditto for the room interior seen on the left of the second pic in the second series; sometimes ons should "let shadows fall where they may".

severely underexposed and over-developed

Overdeveloped? Hard to tell for sure without having the actual negative in hand. The highlights on the streetcar look like they are blocked, but how to tell if it's not the result of poor s******g technique or settings?

gone · Apr 20, 2015

A - buy a light meter, or a camera with an ACCURATE light meter. You can buy yourself a Sekonic L 188 for $20 or so, which will be good for moderately low light. If you need something for very low light, you'll have to at least double that price, but it's an investment that should be good for a long time. If you're a newbie, it might be best to start w/ a camera that has auto exposure w/ in-the-viewfinder readout of aperture and shutter speeds, so that you can get a sense of how the whole light/exposure thing works

B - if you aren't doing your own film developing, send it out to a good pro lab, not someplace like a Walgreens, just to eliminate the chance that it's a development issue

C - now, enjoy yourself! There's few things in life more frustrating than losing good photo opportunities because of faulty equipment

Xmas · Apr 20, 2015

In future either use an incident meter or bracket exposure two stops high two stops low.

Three shots per subject.

You need to fix properly the rebates the sprocket hole area should be as clear film as the gaps between frames, you have gross underfixing...

After three minutes in plain hypo it is safe to open the tank and lift the reel out and if it is not clear of milky effect put it back for another minute lift it out and repeat until clear, of milky effect. Then leave it in the tank for the same time again. Don't try and stretch the life out of fixer.

You need to wash the film properly as well.

Empty the fix fill tank water at same temperature to just cover the reel(s)
invert the tank slowly five times

Empty the water fill tank as above
invert the tank slowly ten times

Empty the water fill tank as above
invert the tank slowly twenty times

If you want to keep your first efforts (as an example) you need to put them back in fixer.

If you are going to post examples again post them as negatives, you review the film technically as negative and artistically as positive.

andrew.roos · Apr 20, 2015

From the negs I would guess the inside pics are about 3 stops under-exposed. So in similar light, try 1/125 or so rather than 1/1000, with the same film speed and aperture. That should give printable negatives. You could go one stop slower to be safe (1/60") since moderate overexposure isn't a problem with print film. Of course a light meter (even a phone app) would be most useful!

Andrew

Sirius Glass · Apr 20, 2015

The indoor photographs are underexposed and they may have a flare issue.

The 1/1000 second exposure is way too short.

nwilkins · Apr 20, 2015

can you post a shot of the negatives from the outdoor shots? people are saying they are overdeveloped but it could very well be the way they are scanned. only way to know for sure is to see the negatives

Bobkins · Apr 21, 2015

thank guys for responses!!

nwilkins said:
can you post a shot of the negatives from the outdoor shots? people are saying they are overdeveloped but it could very well be the way they are scanned. only way to know for sure is to see the negatives

this is negatives, undeveloped and developed pics
I developed and fixed for 4 min at 78F

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/film-development-chart

Xmas · Apr 21, 2015

Bobkins said:
thank guys for responses!
I developed and fixed for 4 min

Don't worry about the development time you have not fixed for long enough.
Your text should have read
I developed for x minutes in y
and fixed for z minutes in t at 78F.
Put the film back in fix solution it won't keep otherwise.
Alternatively your camera is leaking light but looks like fixing.
Only take photos outdoors until you are confident, indoors you need a meter.
Review the film sunny /16 rules if you ignore one you get bad ie difficult to print negative.
I always carry a meter but don't use it some days. The table on the film box is ok.
Don't worry about first results those are good.
You could have got black or clear film.
The socket hole area should only say Kodak and otherwise be clear film.

Ricardo Miranda · Apr 21, 2015

Just to add something:
Have that meter fixed, please.
That OM-1 seems to be working ok: shutter isn't capping at 1/1000th and your frame spacing is ok.
So, it is worth fixing that meter and start taking notes: this light conditions, meter said x.
With experience, you'll know "what settings to use" in what condition. But it needs practice, practice and more practice.
And enjoy yourself! Your pics are nice as well.

removed account4 · Apr 21, 2015

if you don't have a meter look inside your film box at the photographs depicting exposure
that is the sunny (16) 11chart .. in case it is confusing ...
1/ film speed ( =shutter speed )
f16 is no clouds noonday bright sunshine
f11 is sunny, not noonday normal bright sun
f8 is partly cloudy still light
f5.6 shady less sun than clouds
f4 darkish
f2 gloomy
a trick I learned about indoor without a meter is
no matter what, sunny day outside, inside lights ( like a cafe ) 1/15 +wide open

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
will also give you tips
and /or buy a black cat exposure card

http://www.blackcatphotoproducts.com/guide.html ... works well too...

78 degree fixer???
that's kinda hot..
all your chemicals should be about 68 degrees, heat kills fixer as well as developer...

as xmas suggested, bracketing your exposures
that is always a good idea, with or without a meter
because your speeds might be off, or your camera's meter ( or your hand held ) might be off as well

have fun!
john

Bobkins · Apr 22, 2015

78 degree fixer???
that's kinda hot..
all your chemicals should be about 68 degrees, heat kills fixer as well as developer...

I develop using Arista method, and adjust time, so if room temperature e.g. is 78F, instead of 7 min develop 4 min

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/developing-time-based-on-temperature-changes

The reason I am develop at home is a price, I can't find anything cheaper $10 for roll there there in SF Bay,

now I spend ~ $0.50 -$1 for roll

and you are right, it is fun!

I also have a Sony A7 and from e.g. day shooting I have a 200 pics taken, but I like a 1-2, no more,
when shoot film, I like almost all my pics

couple more photos from Sunday

I think IQ can be little bit improved if replace my cheap ION scanner,

anything you can recommend for $200 -300 price range?

Ricardo Miranda · Apr 22, 2015

I think IQ can be little bit improved if replace my cheap ION scanner,

anything you can recommend for $200 -300 price range?

Ask at DPUG. Link at top of page.

StevenPituch · Apr 22, 2015

or don't buy another scanner, but use a cheap digital camera.
http://petapixel.com/2012/12/23/why...our-film-using-a-camera-instead-of-a-scanner/

Sirius Glass · Apr 22, 2015

StevenPituch said:
or don't buy another scanner, but use a cheap digital camera.
http://petapixel.com/2012/12/23/why...our-film-using-a-camera-instead-of-a-scanner/

Welcome to APUG

removed account4 · Apr 22, 2015

Bobkins said:
I develop using Arista method, and adjust time, so if room temperature e.g. is 78F, instead of 7 min develop 4 min

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/developing-time-based-on-temperature-changes

The reason I am develop at home is a price, I can't find anything cheaper $10 for roll there there in SF Bay,

now I spend ~ $0.50 -$1 for roll

and you are right, it is fun!

I also have a Sony A7 and from e.g. day shooting I have a 200 pics taken, but I like a 1-2, no more,
when shoot film, I like almost all my pics

couple more photos from Sunday

I think IQ can be little bit improved if replace my cheap ION scanner,

anything you can recommend for $200 -300 price range?

hi bobkins

sorry my browser refused to open freestyle's page.
from what "they" say ( they = people who know more than me )
you really shouldn't be developing your film for less than 5 mins because the development will be uneven,
and heat is sort of the enemy when it comes to fixer, it kills it.
i don't know enough to say what short warm development or short warm fixing might do to your film
but i'd check at least the fixing ( if you are happy with the development you are getting )
because there is a chance you might not be fixing your film enough ( does it look kind of milky ? )
you can determine your fix time by taking your film leader that you trimmed off
before loading the film on the reel. with the lights on agitating it in your fixer to see how long it takes to "clear" ( be see through )
to film base DOUBLE that time for your total film fix time. ( so if it took 20 seconds, fix totally for 40 seconds ).
and make sure when the fixer is in your tank you agitate it like you did your developer ...

glad to see its fun, fun is good

Are these pics underexposed?

Bobkins

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Are these pics underexposed?

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