Are there resources to learn lens and shutter repair?

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 3, 2015

I have a small but aging collection of LF lenses that have mechanical shutters. Some of the shutters are getting slow and even some are getting stuck. How easy it it to clean and lube them? Are there resources to learn how to service them? I don't want to take apart a shutter and ending ruining it. Any suggestions? Maybe just send them in? I'm a DIYer, but I don't want to get in over my head. Thanks in advance!

E. von Hoegh · Apr 3, 2015

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I have a small but aging collection of LF lenses that have mechanical shutters. Some of the shutters are getting slow and even some are getting stuck. How easy it it to clean and lube them? Are there resources to learn how to service them? I don't want to take apart a shutter and ending ruining it. Any suggestions? Maybe just send them in? I'm a DIYer, but I don't want to get in over my head. Thanks in advance!

I don't know where to point you, I wish I did.
One caveat - there is an infinite number of ways to ruin something. Many of these ways are covered by yootoob 'tutorials'. There are also some very good tutorials, but the novice can't distinguish until too late. That pretty much goes for everything else on the internet too.

Fixcinater · Apr 3, 2015

I'm no expert nor do I play one on TV, but here are some tips I've picked up since starting to fix my own gear. Student budget + GAS = must learn to DIY and not send it out for repair/CLA.

Start with something broken, see if you can make it work or at least get it as close to working as you can. Maybe the condition of the parts in the assembly won't allow full working condition but at least you'll have gone through the diagnostic work and gained experience.

For lenses: start with the simple ones: cheap common primes. Some of the Soviet pieces are assembled in an intuitive manner so they can be a good start. First one I cleaned out and relubed was a Fed 3b and Industar 61.

Good tools (proper lens spanner, for one) helps greatly and patience. It doesn't all need to go back together *tonight* and you can always open it back up.

Taking care with order of assembly: quick digital shots to help remember orientation etc can be a big help, or sketches if you don't have a digicam handy.

BrianShaw · Apr 3, 2015

Learn on shutters you don't mind destroying. It happens. Fix your best shutters after becoming skilled. Seek factory repair manuals as primary source of knowledge. Realize that lubes spec'd in the old days may not exist but modern substitutes may even be better - if applied correctly.

BrianShaw · Apr 3, 2015

And whatever you do, don't get impatient!

John Koehrer · Apr 3, 2015

Thomas Tomosoy has a couple of books out. Repairing Classic Cameras give a basic how-to on leaf shutters.
"Leica Camera Repair" is another. That one's more helpful with LTM's than M's.

shutterfinger · Apr 3, 2015

What make of shutters do you have? Some shutter repair manuals give step by step instructions while others do not, some are simple while others are complex, some are stamped parts while others are machined parts.
Where are you located, Mars or one of its moons, Jupiter, or Saturn?
How good are your skills with very small screws, size 00 to 1 x 1/8 inch long?
Get a good set of Jewlers screwdrivers, sample: http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-66-03...8106576&sr=8-4&keywords=jewelers+screwdrivers
and a good pair of 1/16 inch wide blunt nose tweezers 6 to 8 inches long. A magnifing swing arm lamp helps also.
Use a digital P&S with macro mode or a SLR with close up lens and take pictures of the shutter as you remove each part verifying that the part(s) are shown clearly in their correct position.
Shutter and aperture blades are .015 to .02 inch thick, usually blued steel, and bend very easily. They must be removed and cleaned. I use to coat them with a thin coat of extra fine powdered graphite but used dry film teflon on a recent CLA and the shutters ran faster than with graphite which is a good thing with weaking old springs.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 3, 2015

I mostly have Copal shutters

shutterfinger said:
What make of shutters do you have?

I have Copals #0-3, but I have an old Prontor that I'd like to fix. Any online manuals available?

Thanks for all the great responses!

Len Robertson · Apr 3, 2015

Some pages I have Bookmarked:

http://www.buonaluce.com/Anatomy.pdf

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=acme2&WEBMGR=1ea9633166d723af6b267abd5bc529af

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/repair.html

There may be links from those pages to other sites of interest. You might try searching on Flickr for specific shutter names just in case someone has posted photos of a tear down.

Len

shutterfinger · Apr 3, 2015

Search engine "google"; search term "prontor shutter repair manual"; useful results:
http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/001_pdfsam_prontor.pdf
http://phasmatisapparatus.blogspot.com/2013/04/prontor-svs-repairservice-manual.html
Where you are located will affect your search results.

I've only had the top cover off 1 Copal #2, it looked simple enough that I would not need a manual but starting out they would be difficult.

Monday317 · Apr 3, 2015

Len Robertson said:
Some pages I have Bookmarked:

http://www.buonaluce.com/Anatomy.pdf

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=acme2&WEBMGR=1ea9633166d723af6b267abd5bc529af

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/repair.html

There may be links from those pages to other sites of interest. You might try searching on Flickr for specific shutter names just in case someone has posted photos of a tear down.

Len

+1

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/repair.html

Excellent resource for all things Agfa 6x6 and many great links to use as well. Consider them as a primary resource!

Monday317 · Apr 3, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I have repaired, overhauled, rebuilt a good bit of gear of all kinds in the past several years. But I can tell you still, that I am a bundle of nerves much of the time. It's not easy, and disaster is always an inch away. A job can turn nasty real easy. Always think ahead of what you're going to have to do, so that you can envision what all could go wrong. And set a standard for yourself--NO chewed screw heads. Make your mind up that the piece is going to go back together so that nobody would even suspect it was ever apart. Any lesser quality work is unacceptable. With that, you can do an expert job your first time up at bat.

I just finished up a '57 Hasselblad that was a saga and a near disaster. I did SO MANY things to it. I really didn't have much business going as far with the project as I did. I was sure I ended it by incompetence several times. Then, it all turned around and I now have an all-original 1957 C that would pass the scrutiny of the likes of the certified Hasselblad techs. I'm extremely pleased. And I really didn't have much business getting into something like that. Damn if I'M going to get beat. Make that your attitude.

Hear hear!

Theo Sulphate · Apr 3, 2015

Rick Oleson has a lot of repair information here:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-27.html

ChuckP · Apr 4, 2015

Do you have to understand how the parts of a shutter work in order to do a proper CLA? By that I mean what is the purpose of each gear, lever , spring Etc. I've repaired a stuck shutter or two but mostly by looking at things and pure dumb luck. I really don't understand the function of all the parts.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 4, 2015

You guys are great! I've downloaded some of the PDFs on Evernote. I feel encouraged. After the first success, the pucker factor will go away . What I plan to do is to take pictures as I go along. I'm a tech monkey and I've replaced hard drives in Macbooks and not too long ago, replaced the battery on my Iphone. One more question. Do I need a shutter speed checker along with my other tools?

E. von Hoegh · Apr 4, 2015

ChuckP said:
Do you have to understand how the parts of a shutter work in order to do a proper CLA? By that I mean what is the purpose of each gear, lever , spring Etc. I've repaired a stuck shutter or two but mostly by looking at things and pure dumb luck. I really don't understand the function of all the parts.

Yes, of course. How could it be otherwise? Could you diagnose problems in an electronic circuit without knowing among other things Ohm's law, semiconductor theory, and the purpose of the circuit you are working on?

E. von Hoegh · Apr 4, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I made my shutter speed checker from the IR sensor of an old mouse and use a TV remote for the IR light source.
Replacing hard drives is child's play compared to a shutter. I've re-built automatic transmissions and it's less harrowing than these small camera parts. Just remember to get your attitude right before starting work. Situations can get away from you SO QUICK, and spoil the whole job.Best to use a room with hard floors and not carpets, because it's easier to spot the spring that flew away like a gnat, and half that big.

You know, I was making that comparison while working on my latest project. I've rebuilt 60s and 70s slushboxes, they aren't hard but I absolutely abhor the very idea of a car that shifts for you and therefore dislike working on the damn things. I think the ratio is say four maybe five Contaxen to one slushbox.

Jon Shiu · Apr 4, 2015

I have cleaned some Prontor Press shutters that seem to get the shutter blades gummed up. Opened back and removed and cleaned the blades was not very difficult.

Jon

dsefcik · Apr 7, 2015

I found the Copal shutters pretty easy to work on as a first shutter repair. I got many of repair manuals from Joyce at CraigCamera.com
I also wrote up a short blog post on the Copal repair I will admit to ruining my first couple of camera repairs so I also advocate for first starting with one or two you have that you are willing to sacrifice. I have all of the Tomosy books and don't find them terribly useful, interesting reading but not very useful for the beginner. Get a real spanner tool, I bought one on ebay for cheap and use Ronsonol lighter fluid for the cleaner, don't use alcohol...just don't. Also good small screwdrivers are a must and preferably plastic tweezers, some kind of seeing up close aid, I use cheap 3x glasses from Walmart and a headlamp. A good working area that won't be disturbed so you can cover up your work and come back to it later, expect to work on them over several days...don't rush it. Another poster mentioned coating the shutter blades with dry teflon, can't say I have had the same luck, I keep them dry.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 7, 2015

You rock!

dsefcik said:
I found the Copal shutters pretty easy to work on as a first shutter repair. I got many of repair manuals from Joyce at CraigCamera.com
I also wrote up a short blog post on the Copal repair

I thought this thread was dead, but I got a bonus answer. Thanks! Your link will be very helpful. Not so worried about diving in. But I will proceed with caution.

shutterfinger · Apr 7, 2015

Lighter fluid will damage plastic and rubber components found in some shutters.
Isopropyl Alcohol, preferably the 90% version, will not do harm but is slow to dissolve grease and must be allowed to dry thoroughly from the parts before reassembly.
Lacquer thinner is an excellent degreaser BUT will strip the bluing off the shutter and aperture blades and any other protective coatings of in the shutter.
Denatured Alcohol will produce results similar to lacquer thinner and dissolve adhesives.
CRC Quick Dry Electronic Cleaner, http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Qui...8-2&keywords=crc+quick+dry+electronic+cleaner , available at hardware and auto parts stores is a very good cleaner/degreaser that will not damage any parts in shutters.

Grease is oil in a soap base. Sometimes grease dries out to the point that all that is left behind is a hard soap scum which must be scraped off.

Its your equipment. Preserve or destroy it as you wish.

dsefcik · Apr 7, 2015

The problems I have had with alcohol is it dries and that 10% of moisture in it rusts bare metal components (shutter/aperture blades). I have not used lighter fluid on anything other than metal parts, I guess I was thinking that was a given it would ruin plastic & rubber so shutterfinger's advice should be headed. Let me know if you need any specifics on the Copal shutter, I have some repair diagrams I could probably scan for you if you get stuck.

dsefcik · Apr 7, 2015

Also, if you look at the craigcamera website you may not find what you need, there is a lot of stuff there...I have found using google's "site:" operator works well to find what I have needed...for example "site:www.craigcamera.com copal shutter"

Just an FYI if you did not know about that.

Daren

shutterfinger · Apr 7, 2015

One time I used the links on craigcamera and saw a service manual listed for Copal shutters the next time it was not there but a square copal shutter manual was. I will give your tip a try.

dsefcik · Apr 7, 2015

shutterfinger said:
One time I used the links on craigcamera and saw a service manual listed for Copal shutters the next time it was not there but a square copal shutter manual was. I will give your tip a try.

Make sure once you are on the craigcamera page you do a <ctrl><f> in the browser to search for your keyword on the page, I have found it buried way down somewhere in all the text. If you find something you need be sure to email Joyce with the URl and the number next to the item, that is the best way for her..she has helped me out quite a bit in finding old service & repair manuals.

Are there resources to learn lens and shutter repair?

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