Are there really so few choices?

unityofsaints · Oct 7, 2020

For colour negative there's 3 speeds of Portra, Ektar, Pro 400H and two cinestills. For slide there's two Velvias, Provia and E100. Isn't that a decent selection? The only thing really missing is a fast slide like the old 400-speed Provia but there just wasn't a market for that. Naturally there's a bigger selection in B&W because it's so much easier to manufacture.

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2020

Yep. There used to be Agfa and Ferrania and Konica, too, but that was before 2000...

koraks · Oct 7, 2020

unityofsaints said:
two cinestills

Whether that should be considered as color negative film suitable for stills is IMO debatable. But it exists.

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2020

And the Lomography films exist, albeit at almost double the price of Portra 160 and 400.

focus_on_infinity · Oct 13, 2020

It's slim pickins right now. The Kodaks, Fuji Pro400H, Cinestill, the Lomo's. That's about all I see.

Huss · Oct 16, 2020

Just got an email from Lomography saying Lomo 800 120 is back in stock. it is just a little cheaper than Portra 800. If it is like Lomo 800 in 35mm, then it is an excellent film.

Tel · Oct 16, 2020

I've never researched this, but I do recall reading somewhere that there were only six color film makers: Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Ferrania, Konica and Svema. All the others were just rebranded product from these six factories. Is that true?

Donald Qualls · Oct 16, 2020

I think that was correct as of the 1990s. Obviously, the number has dropped -- Agfa, Ferrania, and Svema have folded (though a group is attempting to bring back Ferrania, currently with a single B&W emulsion) and Konica either closed or got out of the film business.

AgX · Oct 17, 2020

Tel said:
I've never researched this, but I do recall reading somewhere that there were only six color film makers: Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Ferrania, Konica and Svema. All the others were just rebranded product from these six factories. Is that true?

Not true.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

AgX said:
Not true.

As we'd say over on Stack Exchange: "this answer needs more support to be a good answer."

It isn't clear if you were saying there are or were more or fewer color film manufacturers (as noted in my own reply, the list seems correct and complete as of the mid-1990s, with possibly one Chinese manufacturer left off), of if you're naysaying the relabeling (which we know to be true for all store brands, but might include Konica as a relabeler rather than a manufacturer). Perhaps you could give your version of the list of who is/was actually making color film as opposed to confectioning, or just relabeling and reselling?

AgX · Oct 17, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
As we'd say over on Stack Exchange: "this answer needs more support to be a good answer."

He asked "Are all the other films just rebrands. Is that true?" My answer "Not true."

A clear answer.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

AgX said:
A clear answer.

Sure. But you obviously have additional information.

If all the other brands were not just relabeled, there must have been at least one other manufacturer -- can you provide a more complete list of who made color films during, say, the last couple decades of the 20th century? Since the failures of Agfa, Ferrania, and Svema, it's been pretty clearly just Kodak and Fuji -- or is that wrong too? Who else that I don't know about?

grat · Oct 17, 2020

AgX said:
He asked "Are all the other films just rebrands. Is that true?" My answer "Not true."

A clear answer.

I'm reminded of an old joke:

Two people were in a small plane, flying blind over Seattle in heavy fog. As they flew past a large building, seeing a man on the balcony, the pilot shouted "Where are we?", and the man on the balcony shouted back "You're in a plane!". The pilot immediately makes a sharp right turn and begins descending through the fog, and executes a perfect landing. The passenger is amazed, and asked how the pilot had found the runway. The pilot replied "The man on the balcony gave a perfectly valid, but useless answer, so I knew that had to be the Microsoft HQ".

AgX · Oct 17, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
If all the other brands were not just relabeled, there must have been at least one other manufacturer -- can you provide a more complete list of who made color films during, say, the last couple decades of the 20th century? Since the failures of Agfa, Ferrania, and Svema, it's been pretty clearly just Kodak and Fuji -- or is that wrong too? Who else that I don't know about?

You missed the point, as the question was of historic kind. We discussed that in other threads. I'm not repeating myself this weekend on the history of the photochemical industry.

The "failure of Agfa"... not Agfa went under, but AgfaPhoto. To what extent that all was in the control of Agfa still is not clear.
You overlook that Agfa for further more than 10 years produced colour films, and only recently cancelled their last one. Some of these still are available rebranded in consumer conversions.

Concerning the current official situation. It is Fuji, Kodak and Inoviscoat

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 17, 2020

Alas, 120 negative film I shot no longer available:
Agfa Optima https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270686429/in/album-72157625476289859/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262942856/in/album-72157625602231872/
Ektar 25 https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262311503/in/album-72157625476289859/
Fujicolor SHG100 https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262942706/in/album-72157625602231872/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262333071/in/album-72157625602231872/

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

AgX said:
Concerning the current official situation. It is Fuji, Kodak and Inoviscoat

Now, see, I wasn't aware Inoviscoat was coating color. Where might I look for (120) color films they produce? Are those Lomographic?

AgX · Oct 17, 2020

Inoviscoat is making the the first stage, the light-sensitive part of the european instant film.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

Aaah. I had thought they were doing all of that in the old former/again Polaroid plant in Leverkusen(?). Or are you referring to the One Instant peel-apart film, which I thought I had read was just recutting and packaging leftovers from the old Polaroid 8x10 and 20x24 materials?

AgX · Oct 18, 2020

There never was a Polaroid plant in Leverkusen. Only the Bayer plant, with the city of Leverkusen erected around it. Later as part of the huge Bayer plant, their subsidiary, the western Agfa arose.

I am referring to Inoviscoat, an emulsion maker and coater elsewhere who makes at least the negative stage for Impossible and their Polaroid clone.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2020

Okay, I clearly have the location wrong, but wasn't even aware that Polaroid (formerly Polaroid Originals, formerly Impossible Project) weren't doing the coating of the actual sensitive emulsion on their own. Makes sense, though -- not having to do that part, vs. letting those who had experience do it, is probably the main reason they were able to bring a compatible product to market in a reasonable (multi-year, as opposed to multi-decade) time frame.

AgX · Oct 18, 2020

In old Polaroid times they got coated masterrolls from the USA. They never had the facility nor expertise to do it themselves.

MattKing · Oct 18, 2020

Eastman Kodak actually made coated materials for Polaroid at one time. Which was one of the big reasons why they were confident that their instant product didn't infringe any of the Polaroid products. And then the Federal judge in the patent litigation went and radically changed Patent law in general .....

eli griggs · Oct 18, 2020

I do no know if this will help, but on eb*y there are a large number of loaded cassettes of 70mm/15' Vericolor III for sale and the seller will take offers into consideration.

Wallendo · Oct 19, 2020

Tel said:
I've never researched this, but I do recall reading somewhere that there were only six color film makers: Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Ferrania, Konica and Svema. All the others were just rebranded product from these six factories. Is that true?

This is a fairly arbitrary list for a very specific time. Ansco/GAF manufactured color film and the old Ilford manufactured colour film. Lucky made color film for a while.

This is fairly complete list : https://filmcolors.org/timeline-of-historical-film-colors/?sort=color_system-asc&records=all ( A lot of these are movie films, but many of them had still film variants).

Ernst-Jan · Oct 23, 2020

focus_on_infinity said:
It's slim pickins right now. The Kodaks, Fuji Pro400H, Cinestill, the Lomo's. That's about all I see.

Fujifilm Pro 160NS is also still available, albeit only in Japan, you can buy it on eBay. It is a lovely film

Are there really so few choices?

unityofsaints

Donald Qualls

koraks

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Donald Qualls

focus_on_infinity

Huss

Tel

Donald Qualls

AgX

Donald Qualls

AgX

Donald Qualls

grat

AgX

Alan Edward Klein

Donald Qualls

AgX

Donald Qualls

AgX

Donald Qualls

AgX

MattKing

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eli griggs

Wallendo

Ernst-Jan

Are there really so few choices?

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