Are there ANY emulsions that still need a fixer with a hardener?

kingbuzzie · Mar 7, 2020

I was just getting ready to do an order of fix and paper developer, and I usually use Photographers' Formulary TF-5. It's not hardening, and I never even realized until now. Are there still any emulsions for sale that NEED a hardener?

MattKing · Mar 7, 2020

I'm guessing that many of the homemade emulsions would benefit from a hardener.
If you use bleach and re-develop based toners like Kodak Sepia toner, a run through fixer is wise, and post toning hardening is prudent, so a hardening fixer is one good solution.

Alan9940 · Mar 7, 2020

Don't know if the EFKE 25 film I use needs it, but I've found that the film holds up better with it. I've heard Foma films are soft, but since I process that stock in a pyro developer I've never had any issues.

removedacct1 · Mar 7, 2020

J. Lane Dry Plates.

grainyvision · Mar 8, 2020

I imagine several graphic art litho films still benefit from it. Arista’s brand at least is very easily scratched especially when wet

removed account4 · Mar 8, 2020

home crafted emulsions like hardener, and the bottled stuff like from foma, liquid light, and the others I can't remember.

NB23 · Mar 8, 2020

X-ray film with emulsion on both sides

markjwyatt · Mar 8, 2020

This is one of those moments where I would expect Ron Mowry to pop in with some insightful comments.

Doremus Scudder · Mar 8, 2020

markjwyatt said:
This is one of those moments where I would expect Ron Mowry to pop in with some insightful comments.

Sadly, Ron Mowrey passed away recently. We certainly do miss him and his expertise.

rknewcomb · Mar 8, 2020

Isn't it simply fix with hardener for film and no hardener for papers if you're going to tone?

Doremus Scudder · Mar 9, 2020

rknewcomb said:
Isn't it simply fix with hardener for film and no hardener for papers if you're going to tone?

Nope. Most of us nowadays like a non-hardening fixer for film and all paper since it is easier to wash out. Most modern films have pre-hardened emulsions, making the use of hardening fixer superfluous. There are still, however, some instances where a hardening fixer is required: old-style soft emulsion films, mechanical processing, etc.

Best,

Doremus

RauschenOderKorn · Mar 9, 2020

The hardness of an emulsion does not only depend on the emulsion, but also on storage time and on processing:

The longer the storage, the harder the emulsion.

The higher the processing temperature, the softer the emulsion becomes.

So if you process at 25 deg. centigrade, most materials will benefit with hardening. If you process at 20 deg. probably no mayor commercial product needs hardening. The duration of the process also has some influence, so a long Lith session might soften an emulsion.

You can determine if an emulsion is hardened sufficiently easily: if after drying the emulsion feels sticky, it is soft. So process your materials as usual and test afterwards, you can always harden afterwards without problems.

Foma papers are sometimes not hardened particularly well, so after a long Lith session, some hardening might help.

DREW WILEY · Mar 9, 2020

Tanning pyro developers inherently harden the emulsion, so a non-hardening fixer is fine. I use TF4 for both films and papers.

removedacct1 · Mar 9, 2020

Correction: The J. Lane Dry Plates no longer need a hardening fixer. Apparently that changed since I last bought a box. (2018)

kingbuzzie · Mar 13, 2020

RauschenOderKorn said:
The hardness of an emulsion does not only depend on the emulsion, but also on storage time and on processing:

The longer the storage, the harder the emulsion.

The higher the processing temperature, the softer the emulsion becomes.

So if you process at 25 deg. centigrade, most materials will benefit with hardening. If you process at 20 deg. probably no mayor commercial product needs hardening. The duration of the process also has some influence, so a long Lith session might soften an emulsion.

You can determine if an emulsion is hardened sufficiently easily: if after drying the emulsion feels sticky, it is soft. So process your materials as usual and test afterwards, you can always harden afterwards without problems.

Foma papers are sometimes not hardened particularly well, so after a long Lith session, some hardening might help.

This is very good advice, that you!

Are there *ANY* emulsions that still need a fixer with a hardener?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

Are there ANY emulsions that still need a fixer with a hardener?