Are Ikonts Shutters Inter Changeable?

takilmaboxer · Aug 27, 2015

So, I have two Ikonta 523/16 cameras. One has a coated Novar in a Prontor-S shutter. The other has a coated Tessar in a Synchro-Compur. Are the mechanical dimensions and screw threads on these shutters similar? Could I remove the elements of the Tessar, screw them into the Prontor, reset the infinity point, and shoot away? The Prontor runs accurately but the Compur-Rapid is old and slow. Both cameras are of similar vintage, and I've past experience removing, cleaning etc. similar shutters, but I'm not sure about inter changeability.

gzinsel · Aug 27, 2015

it may BE possible, Thread diameter, and pitch are common :sure, provided you can keep the tessar together and the triplet together, However one also has to consider, the flange focal length. no two different lens has the same f>F. so if you can remove glass, you may have too shim out for the correct film to flange . I have heard many people try this, but no such luck, you on the other hand may prove it to work

Brett Rogers · Aug 30, 2015

If the Compur Rapid is serviced, there's a pretty good chance it might outlast you. Isn't this actually the easiest and best option, as it keeps both cameras original?

Ian Grant · Aug 30, 2015

The cost of a CLA on the shutter is far more than I've paid for another similar camera in excellent condition. The shutters are inter-changeable the only issue will be to make sure the Prontor has the same Focal length aperture scale.

I'm actually doing the reverse of this taking the coated Novar cells from a Prontor to replace foggy, very low contrast pre-WWII Novar cells in a Compur Rapid on an earlier Ikonta.

Have a look online there's articles on cleaning these old Synchro Compurs.

Ian

Brett Rogers · Aug 30, 2015

Ian Grant said:
The cost of a CLA on the shutter is far more than I've paid for another similar camera in excellent condition. The shutters are inter-changeable the only issue will be to make sure the Prontor has the same Focal length aperture scale.

I'm actually doing the reverse of this taking the coated Novar cells from a Prontor to replace foggy, very low contrast pre-WWII Novar cells in a Compur Rapid on an earlier Ikonta.

Have a look online there's articles on cleaning these old Synchro Compurs.

Ian

If the thread starter is prepared to swap shutters himself, perhaps he would be prepared to give the Compur Rapid a clean instead, Ie. Cost = virtually nil—my point in my previous comment. Surely two fully working cameras are better than one? I'm assuming he could master this. If not, should he really be discussing swapping the shutters himself, in the first place?

Peltigera · Aug 30, 2015

Swapping shutters is much easier than actually working on the shutter. The shutter housing is robust and held in place by a single ring inside the camera. Having taken the cover off a Compur shutter once in the past, I am never going to do that again but even my collection of left thumbs can swap the entire housing with no problems. Swapping the lens elements is a bit harder, but glass lenses have no springs, cogs, levers and other nightmares in them.

Ian Grant · Aug 30, 2015

Brett Rogers said:
If the thread starter is prepared to swap shutters himself, perhaps he would be prepared to give the Compur Rapid a clean instead, Ie. Cost = virtually nilmy point in my previous comment. Surely two fully working cameras are better than one? I'm assuming he could master this. If not, should he really be discussing swapping the shutters himself, in the first place?

I totally agree. You seemed to be implying a commercial service/CLA rather than DIY.

It's also quite easy to find spare Compur Rapid and Pronto #00 shutters if the shutter won't clean easily.

Ian

takilmaboxer · Aug 30, 2015

For the record, I removed the lens elements on the Tessar and soaked the shutter assembly in Naptha for an hour . The shutter is now very consistent, but 1 stop slow on all speeds. The lens is sharp and both cameras are now in use! I thank the posters here for setting me straight. These mechanical shutters will outlast my d*****l cameras by at least a century.

Brett Rogers · Sep 1, 2015

takilmaboxer said:
For the record, I removed the lens elements on the Tessar and soaked the shutter assembly in Naptha for an hour . The shutter is now very consistent, but 1 stop slow on all speeds. The lens is sharp and both cameras are now in use! I thank the posters here for setting me straight. These mechanical shutters will outlast my d*****l cameras by at least a century.

I agree, they might well do so.

Old Compurs appreciate a little bit of lube. It's true, they'll usually run dry, but it shortens their
longevity and they are not usually as smooth. Deckel were very specific in their lubrication requirements, and as the manufacturer, they would have known. If it's running a stop slow it might well benefit from a new mainspring (if obtainable) but some appropriate lubrication wouldn't hurt, either. The naptha is fine for cleaning but will have flushed any remaining effective lubricants away along with any dust and goo.
Cheers,
Brett

Ian Grant · Sep 1, 2015

I agree with Brett that Naphta, Lighter fuel etc are too harsh and effective in stripping out all the old lubricants. I prefer to use a few drops of IPA (Iso Propyl Alcohol) this is usually sufficient to clean sticky shutter blades and free up the shutter without stripping out all the lubricants. I usually then dry the shutter out on a radiator or oven set to a lowish temperature. The combination of the alcohol and mild heat helps soften up dried out lubricants.

It's relatively easy to pop the front off a Compur Rapid shutter and lubricate the relevant bits, there's relevant diagrams available online.

Ian

Are Ikonts Shutters Inter Changeable?

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