Archival Washer recommended speed

amellice · Apr 4, 2016

I've been blessed with a free Kostiner 16x20 washer. It leaks from several places (I'm in the process of fixing it) but for now I placed it in the tub. What's the water flow speed for archival washing? 2 GPM?

Thanks

canuhead · Apr 4, 2016

Not sure about Kostiners but I run around 250 ml of water per minute through my Summitek washer. 2 gpm seems a bit excessive for washing fb prints. If you have time and paper, I'd suggest running tests with a residual hypo test at various flows. FB paper will wash out through diffusion vs brute force washing.

and congrats on the score ! free equipment is always welcome

Sirius Glass · Apr 4, 2016

Run the input water at a force that the water level stays at the same point. That is, the input equals the output.

David Allen · Apr 5, 2016

amellice said:
I've been blessed with a free Kostiner 16x20 washer. It leaks from several places (I'm in the process of fixing it) but for now I placed it in the tub. What's the water flow speed for archival washing? 2 GPM?

Thanks

It is not just a matter of flow speed but a number of other factors that contribute to effective washing.

I would recommend that you carefully read the thorough research conducted by Martin Reed which is available on the UK analogue forum:

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=296&highlight=vortex

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

removed account4 · Apr 5, 2016

David Allen said:
It is not just a matter of flow speed but a number of other factors that contribute to effective washing.

I would recommend that you carefully read the thorough research conducted by Martin Reed which is available on the UK analogue forum:

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=296&highlight=vortex

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

+1 !

thanks for the link david, I hadn't seen that article before ...
it's on-the-money ...

RalphLambrecht · Apr 5, 2016

amellice said:
I've been blessed with a free Kostiner 16x20 washer. It leaks from several places (I'm in the process of fixing it) but for now I placed it in the tub. What's the water flow speed for archival washing? 2 GPM?

Thanks

slow;as slow as you can .Just keep the fixer concentration in the wash water from reaching equilibrium.

amellice · Apr 5, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
Just keep the fixer concentration in the wash water from reaching equilibrium.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean

Jim Noel · Apr 5, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Run the input water at a force that the water level stays at the same point. That is, the input equals the output.

That is correct according to the original directions, and the flow can be controlled with a clamp on the main drain hose so the volume canbe very low..

adelorenzo · Apr 5, 2016

I have a Versalab washer, they recommend 0.25 - 0.3 gallons/minute as a minimum flow. I installed a 0.5 GPM flow control valve in my hose so I don't have to worry about it, just connect it and turn on the tap.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 6, 2016

amellice said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean

and I'm not sure that I know what you are asking

amellice · Apr 6, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
Just keep the fixer concentration in the wash water from reaching equilibrium

What do you mean by keep the fixer concentration in the wash water from reaching equilibrium? how to know that?

removed account4 · Apr 6, 2016

as long as the water in the tank has LESS fixer & contaminents than the prints water, the wash water
will leech the other materials out of the prints ( diffusion ).
once the tank's water has the same amount of fixer &c as the prints, it has achieved equilibrium ...
and no more of the contaminants will leech out of the prints into the wash water.

folks often times just fill these washers ( or even a large tray or bucket ) with water. let the prints SOAK.
contaminants leech out of the prints, they drain some of the water( or if it is a tray or bucket dump and re-fill ), fill it again, soak some more
leech more contaminants out &c. it uses less water and does similar things ( washes the prints ).

this same wash method is used to remove fix&c from film, but it is easier because the film base isn't a sponge ( like paper ) to absorb the chemistry.
and it is for this reason RC paper was invented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion

amellice · Apr 6, 2016

jnanian said:
once the tank's water has the same amount of fixer &c as the prints, it has achieved equilibrium ...
and no more of the contaminants will leech out of the prints into the wash water.

Thanks for the explanation

Renato Tonelli · Apr 7, 2016

Akram - I have one of these print washers at the college where we met last year. Come by and I will give you a demo - no charge!

BTW - how do we send PM's these days?

amellice · Apr 7, 2016

Renato Tonelli said:
Akram - I have one of these print washers at the college where we met last year. Come by and I will give you a demo - no charge!

BTW - how do we send PM's these days?

Thanks Renato, just PMed you.
You click on the name and then Start a conversation

RalphLambrecht · Apr 7, 2016

amellice said:
What do you mean by keep the fixer concentration in the wash water from reaching equilibrium? how to know that?

as long as you have fresh water entering ,even at low flow rates,the wash water cannot reach equilibrium and that is what you want to keep the diffusion process going.so,0.25gpm should do.

chuck94022 · Apr 8, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Run the input water at a force that the water level stays at the same point. That is, the input equals the output.

Sirius, you're killin' me here. Once the tank overflows, you can crank the faucet wide open and the result will meet your spec! ;-)

Sirius Glass · Apr 8, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Run the input water at a force that the water level stays at the same point. That is, the input equals the output.

chuck94022 said:
Sirius, you're killin' me here. Once the tank overflows, you can crank the faucet wide open and the result will meet your spec! ;-)

I aim to please. Your aim will help.

DREW WILEY · Apr 8, 2016

There is a simple trick to estimate the efficiency of your washer. Fill it and getting it running, then put some bright food coloring dye in it. Then watch
what happens, and how quickly and efficiently the dye totally disperses, and specifically how. No, dye and hypo don't behave exactly the same way,
but this is a pretty good low-tech was to understand what is happening.

amellice · Apr 11, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
There is a simple trick to estimate the efficiency of your washer. Fill it and getting it running, then put some bright food coloring dye in it. Then watch
what happens, and how quickly and efficiently the dye totally disperses, and specifically how. No, dye and hypo don't behave exactly the same way,
but this is a pretty good low-tech was to understand what is happening.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try

Archival Washer recommended speed

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