I suspect in the future we'll end up with sheets of paper that display digital information at resolutions beyond the human eye. Image data might be encrypted and tokenized as an 'original' and if you own the image rights it can be displayed on the digital papers. An example for one image sold by an artists, is there would only be 100 tokenized copies of the image available. People will have framed versions of these papers in their homes that change out various images. Not saying this is what I would prefer (I prefer the 'real thing') but I could see this happening, and once it does the image can remain 'archival' in the cloud.
You developed Sky Net you bastardI suspect in the future we'll end up with sheets of paper that display digital information at resolutions beyond the human eye. Image data might be encrypted and tokenized as an 'original' and if you own the image rights it can be displayed on the digital papers. An example for one image sold by an artists, is there would only be 100 tokenized copies of the image available. People will have framed versions of these papers in their homes that change out various images. Not saying this is what I would prefer (I prefer the 'real thing') but I could see this happening, and once it does the image can remain 'archival' in the cloud.
As a printer for others I do inkjet and I do gum dichromate, and pt pd and silver, I have many reasons for using any one of the products.
I have always wondered about the difference between dye based inkjets and pigment based inkjets.... When I mix my pigments for gum printing the mixture is extremely thick and takes hours to dry, but with inkjet pigment prints the dry time is almost instantaneous. This leads me to wonder how much real pigment is in the lay down and second how is it possible for the pigment to get through the nozzell head configuration which in itself pretty incredible set of engineering.
I question the amount or the thickness or even the quality of the pigment, as there is many types of pigments that can be used for gum printing or painting for that matter, and when going to the pigment store I find myself looking at these characteristics as closely as would a painter grounding their own mixtures.
So is it a matter of small yield pigments that are able to get through the nozzels , and the manufacturers claim that its pigments so therefore an archival pigment inkjet print , But I am curious What Type Of Pigment Mr Epson and Mr Canon Mr Piezography, this is a thing about these claims that I have never clearly heard explained in paper or on threads like this.
I am always perplexed when I go to shows and I see these labels under the prints(archival pigment inkjet) and since the Manufacuturers say so its true I begin to wonder .. Are these labels Fake News to create for the artist a very comforting thought but how true is it really.
When I sell print to others ,with my own work I clearly describe what they are getting, When I am asked by my clients how long will their inkjets last and how should they describe them my answer is as follows.
Ink on paper, and I have no idea how long they will last as this is a new product that enough time has not passed to predict properly.
Epson claims:
"Lightfastness ratings over 100 years before noticeable fading occurs, under a glass frame in normal indoor fluorescent lighting conditions, when using Epson Archival Inks and Epson Fine Art Papers. Lightfastness ratings based on accelerated testing of prints on EPSON special media, displayed indoors, under glass. Actual print stability will vary according to image, display conditions, light intensity, humidity, and atmospheric conditions. Epson does not guarantee longevity of prints. Ratings do not estimate the durability of the paper itself. For maximum print life, display all prints under glass or laminations or properly store them."
The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.kind of weird how lighfastness ratings are for a 100 years, but if it your own print, sorry
we have no clue...
i see no issue making or selling them, as long as they can somehow be replaced and
the maker puts a TM symbol next to the word archival ... the latest generation of inks is
less than 10 years old ? and the ones before that were also labelled eppson archival pigment inks...
oh well, too bad there is no time machine to the future to see how much the pigments and papers will
have changed in like 5 10 even 40 years .. unless by that time its going to be a computer chip installed
next to the cellphone and geeps tracking chip installed at birth...
its funny you mention this sean
about 10? years ago my parents got a
digital picture frame and it worked exactly as you mentioned ( sort of )
you upload images to a website can't remember whose maybe kodak's ..
you mated the frame with the internet and you turned it on ...
but what i am getting at isn't that steiglitz's pictures were stained, its that steiglitz didnt' say " these pigment prints will last 100 years"*The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.
I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.but what i am getting at isn't that steiglitz's pictures were stained, its that steiglitz didnt' say " these pigment prints will last 100 years"*
** we just say 100 years so people will buy our pigment inks ( pigment ink years are 1:9, you know kinda like dog years)
I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.
I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.
Just like the word "art." Which is to say, both are utterly meaningless....the term "archival" means whatever one wants...
The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.
As a printer for others I do inkjet and I do gum dichromate, and pt pd and silver, I have many reasons for using any one of the products.
I have always wondered about the difference between dye based inkjets and pigment based inkjets.... When I mix my pigments for gum printing the mixture is extremely thick and takes hours to dry, but with inkjet pigment prints the dry time is almost instantaneous. This leads me to wonder how much real pigment is in the lay down and second how is it possible for the pigment to get through the nozzell head configuration which in itself pretty incredible set of engineering.
I question the amount or the thickness or even the quality of the pigment, as there is many types of pigments that can be used for gum printing or painting for that matter, and when going to the pigment store I find myself looking at these characteristics as closely as would a painter grounding their own mixtures.
So is it a matter of small yield pigments that are able to get through the nozzels , and the manufacturers claim that its pigments so therefore an archival pigment inkjet print , But I am curious What Type Of Pigment Mr Epson and Mr Canon Mr Piezography, this is a thing about these claims that I have never clearly heard explained in paper or on threads like this.
I am always perplexed when I go to shows and I see these labels under the prints(archival pigment inkjet) and since the Manufacuturers say so its true I begin to wonder .. Are these labels Fake News to create for the artist a very comforting thought but how true is it really.
When I sell print to others ,with my own work I clearly describe what they are getting, When I am asked by my clients how long will their inkjets last and how should they describe them my answer is as follows.
Ink on paper, and I have no idea how long they will last as this is a new product that enough time has not passed to predict properly.
thank you nice description .... My thought on pigment printing is changing over time, Salto in relationship with a Japanese company have designed a Pt Pd printer from digital files that I believe lays down on a flat bed design, this is a first step in revolutionizing the market place, I understand the prints are extremely expensive and really we can do just as well or better (double printing) than this unit can.What I do is mark my prints as Inkjet Pigment Print. If someone asks what that means I will explain what the difference is between a more common dye print and a pigment print and why the latter would be expected to last longer under similar circumstances and let them judge for themselves. Yes, pigment based inks have inherent advantage in terms of longevity over organic dye-based inks. Also, they are water-resistant which means a drop of water or moisture on the finger will not ruin the print. But ultimately, "archivalibility" will depend on many different factors, not the least of which is the paper it is printed on. Aardenburg or Wilhelm always specify the ink and paper combo. All bets are off if you use the same inkset but then print on less than ideal paper (acidity, optical brighters, paper source etc.)
Pigment inks are colloidal suspensions of very fine inorganic pigment particles in the scale of 50-100 nanometers while the nozzles are in the order of tens of microns (100 times or bigger than the pigment particles.) So passing thru those nozzle might not be a bigger problem to solve than making those suckers to stay in suspension without settling or flocculating. That's why some of the new printers have "shaking" option (like my Epson P400) that literally shakes the cartridges every so often to minimize clogging.
It is a complex subject, I suppose and I think slapping an "Archival" label will be grossly misleading to the potential buyer.
:Niranjan.
I've recently had some professional inkjet prints made that I’m told have archival keeping properties. Can anyone confirm how long an inkjet print is likely to last and not fade using the best printing machine/ink technology currently available?
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