Archival inkjet prints

[cliveh]

I've recently had some professional inkjet prints made that I’m told have archival keeping properties. Can anyone confirm how long an inkjet print is likely to last and not fade using the best printing machine/ink technology currently available?

 

[Pioneer]

Based on what I have read here: Epson UltraSmooth Paper it is now possible that some inkjet prints are good for longer than anything else on the market.

I am usually a bit skeptical of long term claims such as this and I do not personally have the expertise to do a reasonable analysis of these claims. So you are on your own with this information. I'll leave a note to have my grandkids, grandkids get back to your grandkids grandkids.

 

[slackercrurster]

Inkjet archival qualities depends on dye based or pigment based. I've tested Canon and Epson. They both have excellent fade resistance. Epson showed no noticeable fading with 1 year of sun exposure. I only tested Canon for 6 months of sun, but it looks comparable for light fastness.

Dye based inkjets fade, do not use if you want the prints to last.

 

[jtk]

Museums and galleries commonly describe inkjet prints as archival when they are pigment-based. Some papers do change independently of pigments...these are typically described as "ultra bright" and if you read the highly detailed descriptions on itsupplies.com that risk does get mentioned. Mostly that relates to the experience with Epson's very popular ultra bright Archival Matte, which rapidly (within a year) became slightly cream colored rather than bright white. The pigment didn't change and many didn't notice what happened to the whiteners.

 

[Sean]

I suspect in the future we'll end up with sheets of paper that display digital information at resolutions beyond the human eye. Image data might be encrypted and tokenized as an 'original' and if you own the image rights it can be displayed on the digital papers. An example for one image sold by an artists, is there would only be 100 tokenized copies of the image available. People will have framed versions of these papers in their homes that change out various images. Not saying this is what I would prefer (I prefer the 'real thing') but I could see this happening, and once it does the image can remain 'archival' in the cloud.

 

[removed account4]

I suspect in the future we'll end up with sheets of paper that display digital information at resolutions beyond the human eye. Image data might be encrypted and tokenized as an 'original' and if you own the image rights it can be displayed on the digital papers. An example for one image sold by an artists, is there would only be 100 tokenized copies of the image available. People will have framed versions of these papers in their homes that change out various images. Not saying this is what I would prefer (I prefer the 'real thing') but I could see this happening, and once it does the image can remain 'archival' in the cloud.

its funny you mention this sean
about 10? years ago my parents got a
digital picture frame and it worked exactly as you mentioned ( sort of )
you upload images to a website can't remember whose maybe kodak's ..
you mated the frame with the internet and you turned it on ...

 

[Jim Jones]

For decades many of us have used Dead Link Removed for information on the longevity of photographic materials. Only the results of testing done in appropriate laboratories can be relied on for specific data. Otherwise, the term "archival" means whatever one wants. I used to provide information on the printer, paper, and ink used for my mounted prints for sale so the customer could download a full report.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I suspect in the future we'll end up with sheets of paper that display digital information at resolutions beyond the human eye. Image data might be encrypted and tokenized as an 'original' and if you own the image rights it can be displayed on the digital papers. An example for one image sold by an artists, is there would only be 100 tokenized copies of the image available. People will have framed versions of these papers in their homes that change out various images. Not saying this is what I would prefer (I prefer the 'real thing') but I could see this happening, and once it does the image can remain 'archival' in the cloud.

You developed Sky Net you bastard

 

[jtk]

I recall reading somewhere (in a magazine, before Internet, that Smithsonian or some other worthy considered "archival print" to mean one that would show little change after 100 years. Not "no" change, just "little" change. Before "archival" was religious, that may have promoted Permawash.

I doubt anybody has ever believed Ciba was archival tho many have claimed that for dye transfer.

Something more about "archival": https://www.albany.edu/faculty/dgoodwin/aart344/Archival_Processing.htm

 

[Bob Carnie]

As a printer for others I do inkjet and I do gum dichromate, and pt pd and silver, I have many reasons for using any one of the products.

I have always wondered about the difference between dye based inkjets and pigment based inkjets.... When I mix my pigments for gum printing the mixture is extremely thick and takes hours to dry, but with inkjet pigment prints the dry time is almost instantaneous. This leads me to wonder how much real pigment is in the lay down and second how is it possible for the pigment to get through the nozzell head configuration which in itself pretty incredible set of engineering.
I question the amount or the thickness or even the quality of the pigment, as there is many types of pigments that can be used for gum printing or painting for that matter, and when going to the pigment store I find myself looking at these characteristics as closely as would a painter grounding their own mixtures.

So is it a matter of small yield pigments that are able to get through the nozzels , and the manufacturers claim that its pigments so therefore an archival pigment inkjet print , But I am curious What Type Of Pigment Mr Epson and Mr Canon Mr Piezography, this is a thing about these claims that I have never clearly heard explained in paper or on threads like this.
I am always perplexed when I go to shows and I see these labels under the prints(archival pigment inkjet) and since the Manufacuturers say so its true I begin to wonder .. Are these labels Fake News to create for the artist a very comforting thought but how true is it really.

When I sell print to others ,with my own work I clearly describe what they are getting, When I am asked by my clients how long will their inkjets last and how should they describe them my answer is as follows.

Ink on paper, and I have no idea how long they will last as this is a new product that enough time has not passed to predict properly.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

As a printer for others I do inkjet and I do gum dichromate, and pt pd and silver, I have many reasons for using any one of the products.

I have always wondered about the difference between dye based inkjets and pigment based inkjets.... When I mix my pigments for gum printing the mixture is extremely thick and takes hours to dry, but with inkjet pigment prints the dry time is almost instantaneous. This leads me to wonder how much real pigment is in the lay down and second how is it possible for the pigment to get through the nozzell head configuration which in itself pretty incredible set of engineering.
I question the amount or the thickness or even the quality of the pigment, as there is many types of pigments that can be used for gum printing or painting for that matter, and when going to the pigment store I find myself looking at these characteristics as closely as would a painter grounding their own mixtures.

So is it a matter of small yield pigments that are able to get through the nozzels , and the manufacturers claim that its pigments so therefore an archival pigment inkjet print , But I am curious What Type Of Pigment Mr Epson and Mr Canon Mr Piezography, this is a thing about these claims that I have never clearly heard explained in paper or on threads like this.
I am always perplexed when I go to shows and I see these labels under the prints(archival pigment inkjet) and since the Manufacuturers say so its true I begin to wonder .. Are these labels Fake News to create for the artist a very comforting thought but how true is it really.

When I sell print to others ,with my own work I clearly describe what they are getting, When I am asked by my clients how long will their inkjets last and how should they describe them my answer is as follows.

Ink on paper, and I have no idea how long they will last as this is a new product that enough time has not passed to predict properly.

Watercolor and acrylic paints used by artists are made with pigments, but when thinned down with water, they can flow as effortlessly as a pure liquid, and they dry relatively fast. I suspect the inkjet inks are based on a quick-drying liquid like alcohol, rather than water, to make them dry as fast as they do.

 

[faberryman]

Epson claims:

"Lightfastness ratings over 100 years before noticeable fading occurs, under a glass frame in normal indoor fluorescent lighting conditions, when using Epson Archival Inks and Epson Fine Art Papers. Lightfastness ratings based on accelerated testing of prints on EPSON special media, displayed indoors, under glass. Actual print stability will vary according to image, display conditions, light intensity, humidity, and atmospheric conditions. Epson does not guarantee longevity of prints. Ratings do not estimate the durability of the paper itself. For maximum print life, display all prints under glass or laminations or properly store them."

 

[removed account4]

Epson claims:

"Lightfastness ratings over 100 years before noticeable fading occurs, under a glass frame in normal indoor fluorescent lighting conditions, when using Epson Archival Inks and Epson Fine Art Papers. Lightfastness ratings based on accelerated testing of prints on EPSON special media, displayed indoors, under glass. Actual print stability will vary according to image, display conditions, light intensity, humidity, and atmospheric conditions. Epson does not guarantee longevity of prints. Ratings do not estimate the durability of the paper itself. For maximum print life, display all prints under glass or laminations or properly store them."

kind of weird how lighfastness ratings are for a 100 years, but if it your own print, sorry
we have no clue...

i see no issue making or selling them, as long as they can somehow be replaced and
the maker puts a TM symbol next to the word archival ... the latest generation of inks is
less than 10 years old ? and the ones before that were also labelled eppson archival pigment inks...

oh well, too bad there is no time machine to the future to see how much the pigments and papers will
have changed in like 5 10 even 40 years .. unless by that time its going to be a computer chip installed
next to the cellphone and geeps tracking chip installed at birth...

 

[faberryman]

kind of weird how lighfastness ratings are for a 100 years, but if it your own print, sorry
we have no clue...

i see no issue making or selling them, as long as they can somehow be replaced and
the maker puts a TM symbol next to the word archival ... the latest generation of inks is
less than 10 years old ? and the ones before that were also labelled eppson archival pigment inks...

oh well, too bad there is no time machine to the future to see how much the pigments and papers will
have changed in like 5 10 even 40 years .. unless by that time its going to be a computer chip installed
next to the cellphone and geeps tracking chip installed at birth...

The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.

 

[wiltw]

its funny you mention this sean
about 10? years ago my parents got a
digital picture frame and it worked exactly as you mentioned ( sort of )
you upload images to a website can't remember whose maybe kodak's ..
you mated the frame with the internet and you turned it on ...

We got a digital picture frame about 15 years ago, and it did not rely upon a web connection. Unfortunately the display technology has NOT CAUGHT UP...even today you buy 1280 x 800 digital picture frames, a small fraction of what our cameras capture, even 10 year old cameras!
We do not routinely turn on our digital picture frame now, the quality of display is simply not worth the bother.

 

[removed account4]

The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.

but what i am getting at isn't that steiglitz's pictures were stained, its that steiglitz didnt' say " these pigment prints will last 100 years"*
** we just say 100 years so people will buy our pigment inks ( pigment ink years are 1:9, you know kinda like dog years)

 

[faberryman]

but what i am getting at isn't that steiglitz's pictures were stained, its that steiglitz didnt' say " these pigment prints will last 100 years"*
** we just say 100 years so people will buy our pigment inks ( pigment ink years are 1:9, you know kinda like dog years)

I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Insufficient information in the OP to make a determination, and even then it would be speculative.
There are many, many, many types of media available in inkjet printing: fibre, fibre-based baryta, pure rag, treated multi-rag mix, resin-coated, hand-pressed... it is not a short list!

I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.

It usually comes up as part of discussing and viewing a print. I was asked last Friday the question about "the keeping qualities" of inkjet. At this time we cannot be 100% certain how long raw prints will last, and spurious claims of "...it'll be around in 100...300 years!" are at best highly conjectural and unproven, because the method of printing has not been around long enough to make informed decisions on long-life archival stability. Twenty years is nowhere near long enough to pass judgement. Come back in 50-60 years at a minimum.

Inkjet media technology is constantly evolving, as are the claims (and as usual, counter-claims) and it is unwise to put the name of any one manufacturer at the top of the pile when in actual fact there is no real difference other than the price! There is agreement, however, that prints that have been museum-grade conservation framed will have a much better chance of lasting a good many, many years than those stuffed into the top drawer with bits of tissue for protection.

 

[removed account4]

I don't think many photographers are telling their customers their prints will last a 100 years, if they are telling them anything.

LOL no no photographers, just photographers who say this stuff on a website like this
and then act as if suggesting it might not be true is some sort of action worthy of calling a priest to do an exorcism ...

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...the term "archival" means whatever one wants...

Just like the word "art." Which is to say, both are utterly meaningless.

Anyone who seeks real world information on inkjet print life expectancy under various display conditions would be best served by consulting this Web site:

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/light-fade-test-results/​

Results are only available after one signs in, but there's no charge to become a member.

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/membership/​

Unlike Wilhelm, Aardenburg is not manufacturer-funded. It's solely contribution-supported. A type of "Consumer Reports" for print fade.

 

[tedr1]

It seems Aardenburg limits investigation to light-fastness whereas Wilhelm also addresses contamination of various sorts.

Light-fastness tests like Aarenburg's seem to use accelerated life testing using light much brighter than normal viewing conditions, making measurements of fading, and extrapolating the results back to normal light levels. The methodology seems to be disclosed on the website. Accelerated life testing has been in use in many commercial processes for a very very long time it seems to me that provided the methodology is rigorously applied and made public the results may be meaningful.

On the other hand using "archival" in the description of inexpensive inkjet prints may simply be exploitation of the success of Epson and Canon in establishing inkjet "for everyone". One popular meaning of the word archival used to mean a black and white silver gelatin print (which is inherently light-fast) that has been produced to meet recommendations of Kodak Ilford and others for prints that are intended to last a long time, decades, perhaps centuries. I am sure there is a significant amount of technical literature out there from pre-digital days on the subject of print processing and longevity under various conditions. I am not sure who is publishing the equivalent technical material for inkjet besides Canon Epson Wilhelm and Aarenburg, probably there is a European organization that studies the subject (ISO?) and possibly a Japanese source also but there may be language barrier difficulties with some of these.

Make prints and be happy. If they last the rest of your life things are pretty good. If not make another print.

 

[nmp]

The are no guarantees in life. Steichen was treating Steiglitz's palladium prints to remove staining 25 years after they were made.

Apparently, whatever Steichen did wasn't that kosher either:

https://wiki.rit.edu/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=40047005
http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic34-01-001.html

:Niranjan.

 

[nmp]

As a printer for others I do inkjet and I do gum dichromate, and pt pd and silver, I have many reasons for using any one of the products.

I have always wondered about the difference between dye based inkjets and pigment based inkjets.... When I mix my pigments for gum printing the mixture is extremely thick and takes hours to dry, but with inkjet pigment prints the dry time is almost instantaneous. This leads me to wonder how much real pigment is in the lay down and second how is it possible for the pigment to get through the nozzell head configuration which in itself pretty incredible set of engineering.
I question the amount or the thickness or even the quality of the pigment, as there is many types of pigments that can be used for gum printing or painting for that matter, and when going to the pigment store I find myself looking at these characteristics as closely as would a painter grounding their own mixtures.

So is it a matter of small yield pigments that are able to get through the nozzels , and the manufacturers claim that its pigments so therefore an archival pigment inkjet print , But I am curious What Type Of Pigment Mr Epson and Mr Canon Mr Piezography, this is a thing about these claims that I have never clearly heard explained in paper or on threads like this.
I am always perplexed when I go to shows and I see these labels under the prints(archival pigment inkjet) and since the Manufacuturers say so its true I begin to wonder .. Are these labels Fake News to create for the artist a very comforting thought but how true is it really.

When I sell print to others ,with my own work I clearly describe what they are getting, When I am asked by my clients how long will their inkjets last and how should they describe them my answer is as follows.

Ink on paper, and I have no idea how long they will last as this is a new product that enough time has not passed to predict properly.

What I do is mark my prints as Inkjet Pigment Print. If someone asks what that means I will explain what the difference is between a more common dye print and a pigment print and why the latter would be expected to last longer under similar circumstances and let them judge for themselves. Yes, pigment based inks have inherent advantage in terms of longevity over organic dye-based inks. Also, they are water-resistant which means a drop of water or moisture on the finger will not ruin the print. But ultimately, "archivalibility" will depend on many different factors, not the least of which is the paper it is printed on. Aardenburg or Wilhelm always specify the ink and paper combo. All bets are off if you use the same inkset but then print on less than ideal paper (acidity, optical brighters, paper source etc.)

Pigment inks are colloidal suspensions of very fine inorganic pigment particles in the scale of 50-100 nanometers while the nozzles are in the order of tens of microns (100 times or bigger than the pigment particles.) So passing thru those nozzle might not be a bigger problem to solve than making those suckers to stay in suspension without settling or flocculating. That's why some of the new printers have "shaking" option (like my Epson P400) that literally shakes the cartridges every so often to minimize clogging.

It is a complex subject, I suppose and I think slapping an "Archival" label will be grossly misleading to the potential buyer.

:Niranjan.

 

[Bob Carnie]

What I do is mark my prints as Inkjet Pigment Print. If someone asks what that means I will explain what the difference is between a more common dye print and a pigment print and why the latter would be expected to last longer under similar circumstances and let them judge for themselves. Yes, pigment based inks have inherent advantage in terms of longevity over organic dye-based inks. Also, they are water-resistant which means a drop of water or moisture on the finger will not ruin the print. But ultimately, "archivalibility" will depend on many different factors, not the least of which is the paper it is printed on. Aardenburg or Wilhelm always specify the ink and paper combo. All bets are off if you use the same inkset but then print on less than ideal paper (acidity, optical brighters, paper source etc.)

Pigment inks are colloidal suspensions of very fine inorganic pigment particles in the scale of 50-100 nanometers while the nozzles are in the order of tens of microns (100 times or bigger than the pigment particles.) So passing thru those nozzle might not be a bigger problem to solve than making those suckers to stay in suspension without settling or flocculating. That's why some of the new printers have "shaking" option (like my Epson P400) that literally shakes the cartridges every so often to minimize clogging.

It is a complex subject, I suppose and I think slapping an "Archival" label will be grossly misleading to the potential buyer.

:Niranjan.

thank you nice description .... My thought on pigment printing is changing over time, Salto in relationship with a Japanese company have designed a Pt Pd printer from digital files that I believe lays down on a flat bed design, this is a first step in revolutionizing the market place, I understand the prints are extremely expensive and really we can do just as well or better (double printing) than this unit can.
but I believe its only a matter of time before people (smarter than me) find the desire and market to design multiple hit gum, carbon, pt pt printers that solve all the registration issues but as well allow the artist to use different papers, metals or pigments and create. I keep thinking about screen printing, electrostatic and now this Salto machine.

I hope to be still active and able to experiment with this technology, rather than inkjet it may be some kind of method where the paper absorbs the materials and a digital component moves over top and exposes the image.

I dreamed of Photo Shop capabilities when I was a young printer in the late 70's and early 80's , I now own the laser printers (ink and silver) to work and make images, I think its only a matter of time before the permanent photo print is commercialized by someone like Epson or Durst.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I've recently had some professional inkjet prints made that I’m told have archival keeping properties. Can anyone confirm how long an inkjet print is likely to last and not fade using the best printing machine/ink technology currently available?

I have a large format pigment printer made by canon (and yes, I can and do make prints for others), and their pigment inks last long enough that you should actually be more concerned with how long the paper will last before it starts to change color. Archival is the ink and paper together, not just the ink. For fine art or Giclée prints, I always recommend 100% cotton or alpha cellulose, acid free, calcium carbonate buffered paper with either no OBA’s, or the absolute minimum. Combine that with modern pigment inks and it will last at least for the rest of most of our lifetimes.