Arca F Line Configuration

jeroldharter · Sep 14, 2008

I am thinking of buying an Arca-Swiss if my daughter sells for a good price. But I don't have any more children so I want to buy the right configuration.

I would get the 4x5 F-Line.

From what I can tell, most people prefer the telescoping monorail to the collapsing (folding) monorail.

Beyond that, I use lenses from 75mm to 300 mm. Is there a single bellows that will accommodate that range?

I assume that the 30 cm rail is just long enough to cover the 300mm lens at infinity. Is an extension bracket usually necessary for the 300 mm lens?

If I bought the standard bellows (instead of the tapered leather one), what is the widest lens that will handle?

I have 5 lenses and even Arca lens boards cost a small fortune. Does anyone make cheaper Arca lens boards?

I like the idea of geared rise but have never used it. Any drawbacks apart from the slightly higher weight and cost of the "Metric" version?

Thanks.

resummerfield · Sep 14, 2008

jeroldharter said:
…….From what I can tell, most people prefer the telescoping monorail to the collapsing (folding) monorail……..

I have a new-style 4x5 Metric F with the 141mm standards, and it has the telescoping monorail. I keep a 15cm monorail rail on the camera, so it is a very compact unit to carry, and keep another 40cm monorail on the standard 30cm extension bracket. This gives me 15 + 40 cm when the monorails are touching, and another 10cm or so when I side them apart. It is a very compact way to carry the camera.

jeroldharter said:
…….Beyond that, I use lenses from 75mm to 300 mm. Is there a single bellows that will accommodate that range? ……..

I have the standard bellows. I can use a 65mm lens with limited movements—the small lens image circle precludes excessive movements. I have used a 450mm lens at infinity, but it stretches the bellows to their limits. So 75mm to 300mm lenses would be very comfortable.

jeroldharter said:
…….I assume that the 30 cm rail is just long enough to cover the 300mm lens at infinity. Is an extension bracket usually necessary for the 300 mm lens? ……..

Purchase the standard “optical bench telescope” which has two 15cm rails and a 30cm extension bracket. Also purchase a single 40cm (or 30cm) rail, and you are set for around 65cm. The standard 15 + 15 cm rails, extended in the bracket, will give around 40cm, which is enough for a 300mm lens.

jeroldharter said:
…….If I bought the standard bellows (instead of the tapered leather one), what is the widest lens that will handle? ……..

I can focus a 65mm lens with the standard bellows. There is not much room for movements, but the 65mm Rodenstock lens has a pretty small image circle.

If you go with the tapered bellows, you have the smaller 110mm front standard, and the much smaller lensboards. I tend to use bigger lenses, and I find a small 110mm lensboard too tight. The 141mm lensboard is big enough to use even the older, barrel lenses--I have a 42cm Voigtlander Heliar that I can use on My Arca.

jeroldharter said:
…….I have 5 lenses and even Arca lens boards cost a small fortune. Does anyone make cheaper Arca lens boards? ……..

No. At least no one that I’ve found.

jeroldharter said:
…….I like the idea of geared rise but have never used it. Any drawbacks apart from the slightly higher weight and cost of the "Metric" version? ……..

I really like my Metric version. When I’m focusing, I can use one hand to raise or shift the standard. That alone is worth the extra price.
Also consider the Orbix option, that allows axis tilt. I have it, and would buy it again.

I find my Arca is every bit a compact as a conventional flat bed camera, and much more rigid. I'll never sell it.

jeroldharter · Sep 14, 2008

Thank you for the great information. That was very clear.

However, film is dead. You are on a path to nowhere. You really should re-think what you are doing. And about selling your gear... Just kidding of course. Were you satisfied with the seller? I have read some complaints about the buying process (lack of documentation, difficulty assembling the camera from the box, etc.) Seem to hear universally good things about Badger Graphics which is close to home for me.

dlin · Sep 14, 2008

Jerold,

I have the 4x5 F-Metric compact version of the camera, which has the folding 30cm rail. It's a wonderful machine with very intuitive controls and fine mechanical qualities.

Regarding your specific questions:

The standard bellows for the 141mm frame version of the camera is very versatile, easily handling the my range of lenses; 65mm to 300mm.

I have a 25cm extension rail, which is very useful for the longer lenses and/or for close focusing. The folding standard rail and extension are rigid enough for my purposes and lightweight. I've made a yoke that fits inside my backpack, which holds the camera inverted on the standard rail. This makes it very quick to set up- all I have to do is slide the camera into the rail holder, which stays mounted on my tripod head. With this setup, I can leave any lens mounted on the camera during transport in the backpack.

I find the geared rise and shift movements of the metric version very convenient and intuitive. No need to lock down after each movement. The added weight of the metric relative to the classic version is nominal and worth the tradeoff of convenience.

The geared orbix front axis tilt is similarly very convenient and makes tilt adjustments much easier. You can easily adjust tilt with one hand while viewing the effects through a loupe on the GG.

Arca-Swiss lens boards are very expensive, so I have made an adapter to take Technika-style boards, which has the added benefit of reducing bulk.

The obvious downside is cost, which is breathtaking. I bought mine used.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Kind regards,
Daniel

noumin · Sep 14, 2008

Hi

I agree with what resummerfield has already said. The telescoping rail is much more versatile.
With a 30cm collapsible rail you will probably reach 270-280mm extension as the function carriers
of the camera take up some space. With the 300mm telescoping rail I can reach an extension
up to about 400mm.
After use, slide both standards onto one rail unit, pull it out of the bracket and you have a compact
package for transport.

For the bellows, I have an older camera with the 171x171 lensboards and I don't know about the newer,
smaller ones. At an etxension of 400mm the bellows is pretty streched but still plenty of movement and
tilt/swing possible, at 90mm (that's my wideangle) I can focus and have about 10mm of movement together
with a wee bit of tilt/swing left, but for a 75mm lens I would suggest a wide angle bellows.

Don't know of any other makes for the lensboard.

Don't know about metric as I'm frugal and I never even considered it - I haven't missed it so far.
Orbix ? I'm frugal and I never even considered it - I miss it occasionaly.

Don't know about assembling it as I picked mine up assembled from a dealer, nothing in terms of instructions but it's
really self explaining, there isn't much you can do wrong. I assemble and disassemble mine all the time for transport,
the camera still works, and if I can do it, everybody can.

Just my two cents ... or five cents ? Don't know.

eclarke · Sep 14, 2008

jeroldharter said:
I am thinking of buying an Arca-Swiss if my daughter sells for a good price. But I don't have any more children so I want to buy the right configuration.

I would get the 4x5 F-Line.

From what I can tell, most people prefer the telescoping monorail to the collapsing (folding) monorail.

Beyond that, I use lenses from 75mm to 300 mm. Is there a single bellows that will accommodate that range?

I assume that the 30 cm rail is just long enough to cover the 300mm lens at infinity. Is an extension bracket usually necessary for the 300 mm lens?

If I bought the standard bellows (instead of the tapered leather one), what is the widest lens that will handle?

I have 5 lenses and even Arca lens boards cost a small fortune. Does anyone make cheaper Arca lens boards?

I like the idea of geared rise but have never used it. Any drawbacks apart from the slightly higher weight and cost of the "Metric" version?

Thanks.

Hi Jerold,
I am a Wiscononite and have 5 Arcas, if you'd like to meetup I would be happy to show you the ropes with Arcas...Evan Clarke

jeroldharter · Sep 14, 2008

eclarke said:
Hi Jerold,
I am a Wiscononite and have 5 Arcas, if you'd like to meetup I would be happy to show you the ropes with Arcas...Evan Clarke

Evan,

That is very kind of you. Unfortunately I am in Stevens Point which is a bit of a drive. I would love to try check one out in person so I will touch base with you if I am in your neck of the woods. I am trying to process ~170 sheets of film from a recent trip and it's taking me forever. 5 Arcas? Does your wife know about that?

resummerfield · Sep 14, 2008

jeroldharter said:
.....I have read some complaints about the buying process (lack of documentation, difficulty assembling the camera from the box, etc.) Seem to hear universally good things about Badger Graphics which is close to home for me.

While I've purchased from Badger and been very pleased, I purchased my Arca equipment from Rod Klukas at Photomark (800-777-6627). Rod is very familiar with the Arca system, and has given me some very good tips. I suggest you call both dealers by phone and discuss the Arca system, then order from the dealer you feel most comfortable with.

Arca ships their camera unassembled, but there are only a few components (standards and rails), so it is very easy to assemble (and requires no tools). Rod Klukas offered to assemble my Arca and ship it complete, but I wanted to assembly it myself.

Arca does not have any documentation. I've even called their rep in Chicago and still can't even get a current catalog--I don't think Arca has one! But Rod Klukas and Jeff at Badger know the Arca system well, so discuss any questions with them.

Capocheny · Sep 14, 2008

Jerold,

I think the A/S system is a one of the better systems available on the market today. It's well-built, (relatively) light weight for what it is, and terrific to use in the field.

That said, be prepared to wait a very, very long time for some of their component parts. For example, don't hold your breath should you ever want to buy a 5x7 conversion kit. They are quite expensive and exceedingly difficult to buy on either the new or used market! This is the MAJOR downside to buying into this system.

I would highly recommend that you go to (Dead Link Removed) and download the catalog and price list. (If I'm not mistaken, they are the official service depot for Arca Swiss in the U.S.) Go through it and be absolutely sure to decide on the exact gear you want. For example, if you decide Orbix is something you might want then buy a camera only if it has it. Otherwise, you might have to send the camera back to France in order to have the Orbix feature added. [I don't think Bob can add this feature.]

As to the lens board... I've had my boards modified to accept Technika boards. IMHO, this is the ONLY way to go for folks using the 171 sized boards. The Technika boards are smaller (reduces bulk), more available, (OEM boards are usually available through Badger, MidWest, and the bay) and, generally, lower priced.

As Resummerfield said... both Rod and Jeff are great to deal with. Also, keep an eye open for a sale either on this forum or on the Large Format Photography forum (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/).

Good luck!

Cheers

eclarke · Sep 15, 2008

jeroldharter said:
Evan,

That is very kind of you. Unfortunately I am in Stevens Point which is a bit of a drive. I would love to try check one out in person so I will touch base with you if I am in your neck of the woods. I am trying to process ~170 sheets of film from a recent trip and it's taking me forever. 5 Arcas? Does your wife know about that?

She doesn't know much detail!!..EC

herb · Sep 16, 2008

which arca

I have 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 arca's. I tried to buy a conversion kit to 5x7, waited about 2 years and lucked into an old 5x7 at a local dealer. Bob Watkins at Precision fixed it so it would work with the newer rails, and I have bought bits and pieces off ebay to make up the 8x10.

Arca just raised their prices 20%, not that it matters-I have a the block that raises the front standard of an 8x10 up to level on order for two years and never got it.

Buy used, they are indestructible, and Badger or Rod are wonderful to buy parts from. I got an orbix front from Rod, and it is handy, but not necessary for field work.

It may be that Arca will be easier to buy from now that a 5x7 is about 6 grand.

coriana6jp · Sep 16, 2008

I bought an Arca-Swiss 4x5 Field C from Badger Graphic back in May just before the price increase. Its a great camera, but as others have said its expensive.

My camera has the 141mm rear standard and the 110 front standard. Its compact and takes up little more space than Toyo 45AII, though its quite a bit heavier. The supplied 30cm rail, doesnt actually give you 30cm of usable rail, due to the way the standards are designed. The supplied rail is only really good for lenses up to about 250mm at infinity. Anything closer than than, and you will need an extension rail. The supplied bellows are great, I can focus my 47mm lens with movement as well as my 360mm at portrait distances. I havent tried it, but I think I could focus my Fuji 450mm C at infinity with the supplied bellows and 25cm extension rail I bought.

I have the Micro Orbix and love it, makes focusing with tilts very very fast. Personally I am dont like base tilts, especially on the front standard so its worth the upgrade price to me. But, if you decided to get Orbix, get it from the start. Otherwise the camera will have to be sent back to France to be retrofitted. Precision Camera Works will NOT be able to do the work.

I have the same problem as you, but I have alot more than 5 lenses as well as multiple cameras. So I had SK Grimes make a arca 110 to Linhof adapter board. It took about 6 weeks and cost $225.00, but considering the cost in lensboards I would have had to change it was a great choice. Even with the adapter I can use all my lenses with movements, including wide angles.

The only thing I would have done different, is I should have gone with the metric standards to get the gear rise and swing. It adds a fair amount of weight, but I think it would have been worth it. Its a minor thing, and I love the camera the way it is, but sometimes miss the geared rise/swing.

Hope it helps.

Gary

Peter De Smidt · Sep 16, 2008

Jerold,

It'd be worth it to drive up to Badger Graphics and look at the cameras. Make sure to call and talk to Jeff to see if they have the one's in stock that you'd like. I prefer the standard F model with the big lens boards. Jeff is great to deal with. I found out about Badger about 10 years ago. I was heading to Chicago, and I gave the Arca distributor a call asking if there were any cameras I could look at. She told me I'd have to go to Kaukauna, WI I really wish I'd have bitten the bullet and bought an Arca years ago. Sure they're expensive, but they're worth it! (Jeff has some John Sexton prints, which is an added reason to visit.)

jeroldharter · Sep 16, 2008

I really appreciate all of the informative and experienced replies. I am getting to be an expert in the Arca system. For the money I should be. I still have some lobbying to do at home...

I have a chance to buy a used one that is 2003 vintage. Anything I should be concerned about? It is an F-Line Compact Metric with micrometric Orbix reported to be in excellent condition. Anyone care to guess at a reasonable price for it? If the price is not reasonable, I am more inclined to buy new.

noumin · Sep 17, 2008

If it is an 2003 model it will possibly use the large (171mm) lensboards. I quite like them because the bellows
is recessed behind the standards. I carry my ARCA in a backpack and so the bellows is very well protected. With the new, smaller standards the bellows is protruding, I would have problems.
If it is a Compact, it will have a collapsible rail, make sure how long it is, or if there are any extension rails, otherwise you may not be able to use your 300mm lens. As for the price, I have no clou. Have a look on the finished auctions at Epray, or check the usual suspects (KEH, Badger ...).

eclarke · Sep 17, 2008

Peter De Smidt said:
Jerold,

It'd be worth it to drive up to Badger Graphics and look at the cameras. Make sure to call and talk to Jeff to see if they have the one's in stock that you'd like. I prefer the standard F model with the big lens boards. Jeff is great to deal with. I found out about Badger about 10 years ago. I was heading to Chicago, and I gave the Arca distributor a call asking if there were any cameras I could look at. She told me I'd have to go to Kaukauna, WI I really wish I'd have bitten the bullet and bought an Arca years ago. Sure they're expensive, but they're worth it! (Jeff has some John Sexton prints, which is an added reason to visit.)

You need to do it during the week, though. jeff used to open up on Saturday mornings but stopped a couple years ago....EC

eclarke · Sep 17, 2008

jeroldharter said:
I really appreciate all of the informative and experienced replies. I am getting to be an expert in the Arca system. For the money I should be. I still have some lobbying to do at home...

I have a chance to buy a used one that is 2003 vintage. Anything I should be concerned about? It is an F-Line Compact Metric with micrometric Orbix reported to be in excellent condition. Anyone care to guess at a reasonable price for it? If the price is not reasonable, I am more inclined to buy new.

At this point, abiut $2200.00. I am a huge advocate of the optical bench as opposed to the folding rail. The camera can be stored more compactly, assembled quicker and is more rigid than the folder. I didn't think any camera could be better than my 171 Fmetric until I saw the new 141 at the View Camera conference. The 141 full Fmetric w orbix is the most complete setup possible, you may use all the AS front accessories ( like the Technika adapter) but you can't on the field. I can draw from 58mm to 720 tele with the new bellows and an additional small rail I carry. I am attaching a photo of the two cameras side by side...EC

eclarke · Sep 17, 2008

Jerold, if you'ld like to call, my office number is 414 383 9661..Evan Clarke

jeroldharter · Sep 18, 2008

noumin said:
If it is an 2003 model it will possibly use the large (171mm) lensboards...

You were right. I finally saw some photos. Also, it has an enormous synthetic bag bellows that could double as a survival shelter.

At this point, I am close to pulling the trigger on buying new:

F-Line 4x5 Metric with Micrometric Orbix on front standard
141 mm standards on front and back
Standard bellows
30 cm Telescoping rail
SK Grimes Arca lens board adapted to accept Canham boards

I understand that would allow me to use my lenses from 75 - 300 mm without changing bellows.

Any comments or further suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again for all of the help and advice.

jeroldharter · Sep 18, 2008

Another question:

I have a beater 6x7 film back for my current camera. If I am going all out on an Arca, is it worth getting an Arca 6x7 film back? Is it really any better than the Calumet?

Palantiri7 · Sep 25, 2008

No, the Calumet should be just fine. The telescoping 30cm rail should be okay, but if you think you may spring for a conversion set later on (5x7/8x10), it's best to get the 40cm/50cm rail now. My 8x10 uses the 25cm extension bracket attached to a 30cm rail, and the union isn't exactly totally rigid.

jeroldharter · Oct 5, 2008

Update

Thanks for the advice.

I purchased an Arca F-Line Metric with Micrometric Orbix with 141 mm front/back standards along with an RZ-1 ballhead from Rod Klukas at Photomark. It came with a 30 cm telescoping rail and the standard bellows. I bought the wide angle bellows also. It was all in stock and came to me assembled and tested by Rod. Photomark sent an Arca board directly to SK Grimes and I am waiting for the adapted board to fit my Canham boards which are much smaller and cheaper.

My next issue is how to carry the camera. The standard bellows are synthetic and extend somewhat beyond the margins for the front and rear standards so I don't want to bang them around or abrade them. I will get a Pelican case which is easily configured. But what sort of backpack do people use, or more precisely, how do you store the camera within the pack? I know to compress the standards and remove the short rail from the telescoping rail. But I don't like the idea of placing the standards and bellows loose in a pack. Seems like it should have its own enclosure for protection. Any ideas or photos of personal setups appreciated.

I have not had a chance to use the camera yet. But I put the RZ-1 head on my Berlebach tripod and it is a gem. It holds the camera with confidence. The camera itself is a beauty. Everything seems flawless. The geared movements are tight and smooth. I think its design will suit/improve my method of working and am eager to get going.

Palantiri7 · Oct 5, 2008

I put mine (4x5) in a Lowepro Phototrekker AW II, and wrap the camera in the darkcloth. I unlock all locks on the camera. My camera is the 171 version, and I would indeed worry about the bellows in the 141 version. I'd probably remove the bellows if I had the 141, but actual users of the 141 version would likely give you a better answer.

Arca F Line Configuration

noumin

noumin

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