APX 400 in Rodinal 1+50 times

bowie · Oct 10, 2012

Hello, what are correct times of Rodinal APX 400/120 shot at 320, 20 degrees? The expiry date of the negative is July 2007, so I think that is new APX version. Is it really 30min as digitaltruth and agfa data sheet say? I have googled, but found no the answer... thx for help

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2012

My Rodinal (original Rodinal) instructions for APX400 @ EI320 says : 1+25 =7 mins and 1+50 =11 mins I cannot say which APX 400 this refers to but based on when I got the Rodinal this would have been around 2006/7 so it looks as if the APX referred to would be the same as yours if your APX expires in 2007.

Based on this I'd be worried about a time of 30 mins but I should add that I haven't used APX 400 in Rodinal so my info is Rodinal instructions based and NOT based on personal experience.

I hope this helps

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2012

In the MDC( Digitaltruth) there is one entry showing 30 mins as you stated but there are also entries replicating the times on the Rodinal sheet.

The entries in MDC are user-based and while usually reliable I'd be wary about a time which is 300% greater

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 10, 2012

The latest APX 400 version had an impossible time/contrast curve with even 1+25 Rodinal. Please see the attached image, which shows that when you reach a gamma of about 0.65 it basically doesn't matter how long you develop, because you will not get any more density anyway. This is from Agfa's own data sheet.

Now if you dilute the developer to 1+50, well you're asking for trouble, because you may not even get 0.65. I would recommend against using Rodinal at 1+50, and using 1+25 instead, and hoping for the best.
Or use a different developer (you see in the same attachment how Agfa Refinal and Studional both don't suffer this, to put it mildly, bizarre behavior of the film).
I used some of the new APX400 with Rodinal 1+25 and the results were fine, with very good resulting prints.

MartinP · Oct 10, 2012

That looks really weird. Almost like 1:25 isn't enough developer to get the job done?? I think I have about 30m of this in the fridge but I haven't even tried it yet, so it is good to know that I need to check the Agfa documentation for an EI and choose something other than Rodinal (which works very nicely with APX100 of course).

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 11, 2012

Yeah, it looks weird because it IS weird. I had good luck with Xtol and DD-X.

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 11, 2012

I do not often develop APX400 in Rodinal 1-50 but it can be ok:

Bay bridge Toll Plaza marsh Tele-rolleiflex APX400 Rodinal 1-50 10min 20C 10-2008 VS 4990 Scan-081026-0006 by rich8155 (Richard Sintchak), on Flickr

Generally I prefer it in HC-110:

Phoenix pond Rolleiflex3-5E3 Xenotar Agfa APX400 HC-110dilH 9min 20C 30secAg 03-2010 VSmac 9000 Scan-101111-0003 by rich8155 (Richard Sintchak), on Flickr

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 11, 2012

rich815 said:
I do not often develop APX400 in Rodinal 1-50 but it can be ok:

Bay bridge Toll Plaza marsh Tele-rolleiflex APX400 Rodinal 1-50 10min 20C 10-2008 VS 4990 Scan-081026-0006 by rich8155 (Richard Sintchak), on Flickr

Generally I prefer it in HC-110:

Phoenix pond Rolleiflex3-5E3 Xenotar Agfa APX400 HC-110dilH 9min 20C 30secAg 03-2010 VSmac 9000 Scan-101111-0003 by rich8155 (Richard Sintchak), on Flickr

Please note that this only applies to the new version of APX 400. I forget when it was reformulated, though.

bowie · Oct 12, 2012

Finally, I souped APX 400/120 exposed at 320 (expiry date July 2007) in rodinal 1+25, 7min, 20C, agitation 60sec. and then one invert at every 30sec.
The negative looks OK, though a bit fogged because of it's age.

BTW, the NEW APX version was introduced in 2003

thx for your help!

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 12, 2012

bowie said:
Finally, I souped APX 400/120 exposed at 320 (expiry date July 2007) in rodinal 1+25, 7min, 20C, agitation 60sec. and then one invert at every 30sec.
The negative looks OK, though a bit fogged because of it's age.

BTW, the NEW APX version was introduced in 2003

thx for your help!

Fogged? Almost all my APX400 is expired from 2008 or 2011 and I've not had any fogging issues. In I rarely see any fogging for any of my old stock unless I got back to at least the early 90's stuff....

bowie · Oct 13, 2012

rich815 said:
Almost all my APX400 is expired from 2008 or 2011 and I've not had any fogging issues.

What is your APX 400 base colour? My APX 400 base is grey. The negative looks dark, though when I look against the light everything is OK. My APX 100 is base is transparent clear, expiry date 2006 and younger

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 13, 2012

bowie said:
What is your APX 400 base colour? My APX 400 base is grey. The negative looks dark, though when I look against the light everything is OK. My APX 100 is base is transparent clear, expiry date 2006 and younger

I used to get that base color too when I used the film. At first I thought it was insufficient fixing, but fresh fixer and several rolls later confirmed that the sort of milky base was a quality of the film.

I did get a couple of rolls back from a lab once, and they were absolutely clear, which baffled me. I asked them what they used, and it was a seasoned tank of Xtol, Kodak fix, and a second fixer of plain hypo.
I was never able to replicate their results, but it doesn't really matter since you just print right through the base anyway.

bowie · Oct 13, 2012

Thomas Bertilsson said:
several rolls later confirmed that the sort of milky base was a quality of the film.

Milky base (without pink cast) I get from Kodak TXP 320, my APX 400 base is not milky, it has pretty dark grey base. I have used rapid fixer, not fresh, but I made test before fixing and fixer was good + jobo cascade + ilford washaid

Gerald C Koch · Oct 13, 2012

The dilution 1+50 means 1 part of developer mixed with 50 parts of water making a total of 51 parts. Don't you mean 1+49? A small point but newbies don't need to pick up bad terminology.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 15, 2012

bowie said:
Milky base (without pink cast) I get from Kodak TXP 320, my APX 400 base is not milky, it has pretty dark grey base. I have used rapid fixer, not fresh, but I made test before fixing and fixer was good + jobo cascade + ilford washaid

I'm sure we're seeing the same thing, but calling it something different. It is safe to say that APX400 film base was not very clear.

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 15, 2012

bowie said:
What is your APX 400 base colour? My APX 400 base is grey. The negative looks dark, though when I look against the light everything is OK. My APX 100 is base is transparent clear, expiry date 2006 and younger

I'll pull some neg pages and report back...

APX 400 in Rodinal 1+50 times

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