APX 100 completely clear after stand dev

luxikon · Sep 25, 2015

I stand developed an 135 AGFA APX 100 in Rodinal (3.5 ml/roll) 1+100 plus 10.5g NaCl for 1h at 18°C. After fix and rinse the film came out completely clear. There really is nothing there not even the edge numbers.
Never had that before. What might have happened?

bdial · Sep 25, 2015

Either the developer was completely inactive, perhaps due to age, a mixing mistake, or contamination; Or, the film was inadvertently fixed instead of developed.

Presumably this is a combination you have used successfully before? That is, that developer+ NaCl at that dilution and time with that film?

Xmas · Sep 25, 2015

If the leader was clear then either

You forgot the Rodinal or
Fixed first

MrBrowning · Sep 25, 2015

Not to change the subject of the thread but what is the purpose of the NaCl?

blockend · Sep 25, 2015

No edge numbers whatsoever mean no developer.

MrBrowning · Sep 25, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
MrBrowning: NaCl is a weak restrainer and silver halide solvent. It has occasionally been added to developers to get slightly finer grain. The typical application was to turn low pH, fine grain formulas such as D-23 in to extra fine grain formulas such as Kodak's Microdol and Ilford's Perceptol. In a formula such as Rodinal, it may or may not have an effect, and it would of course depend to some degree on the concentration.

Thank you for the explanation.

luxikon · Sep 25, 2015

@ MrBrowning
By the NaCl and the low temp I try to reduce grain a bit, and it seems to me that the NaCl increases the micro contrast of the APX.

May be the Adonal (which I actually used) was exhausted, it was the rest of the bottle. The former Rodinal lasted always very long. Is Adonal no more the same as Rodinal?

blockend · Sep 25, 2015

luxikon said:
@ MrBrowning
By the NaCl and the low temp I try to reduce grain a bit, and it seems to me that the NaCl increases the micro contrast of the APX.

May be my Rodinal was exhausted, it was the rest of the bottle. But my Rodinal lasted always very long, before.

Even very exhausted stock, or huge dilutions, or short durations would leave residual evidence of edge data. It sounds like it wasn't developed.

Xmas · Sep 25, 2015

luxikon said:
@ MrBrowning
By the NaCl and the low temp I try to reduce grain a bit, and it seems to me that the NaCl increases the micro contrast of the APX.

May be the Adonal (which I actually used) was exhausted, it was the rest of the bottle. The former Rodinal lasted always very long. Is Adonal no more the same as Rodinal?

Any of the clones should be the same, down to crystals at the end.
The APX100 grain is not that bad?

gzinsel · Sep 25, 2015

I'm going to call it. . . . . human error. Although, I still believe the most likely scenario, is you fixed before developed, thinking that you developed before you fixed. because the evidence was clear in your mind. HOWEVER, there was the ol' swtch-a-rue, that you did not notice. with absolutely nothing coming up, not even the leader. 2nd place goes to Completely exhausted developer, however, even with some developer "active" yoyo would get something. I'm still voting for the former, not the latter.

pentaxuser · Sep 25, 2015

I have fixed before developing once only. Like you, OP, I had difficulty believing that I could possibly have reversed the sequence but it was the case.

Now my two cylinders for fixer and developer are brightly labelled and I make sure that I mix the developer first and put it at the front of the processing area i.e. within arm's reach and place the fixer in a corner so I have to make an effort to get to it.

It works but frankly the real foolproof method is to make up the developer only, process then stop with water or stop bath and while the film is awaiting the fixer then and only then make it up. If the fixer isn't there to be reached then you cannot use it first

pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · Sep 25, 2015

The addition of sodium chloride to low activity high sulfite developers like D-23 is well known. However I question the efficacy of its use with a high activity developer such as Rodinal. Yes, yes I know Gainer claimed to see some change. But again we need data from controlled experiments and not speculation. But unless you have the equipment to measure the RMS granularity why bother. Trying to do this visually is full of traps.

If you want fine grain then pick a fine grain developer rather than jury rig a developer known to emphasise grain.

vesper · Sep 25, 2015

You could even have washed the emulsion away. I did it.

Xmas · Sep 25, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
The addition of sodium chloride to low activity high sulfite developers like D-23 is well known. However I question the efficacy of its use with a high activity developer such as Rodinal. Yes, yes I know Gainer claimed to see some change. But again we need data from controlled experiments and not speculation. But unless you have the equipment to measure the RMS granularity why bother. Trying to do this visually is full of traps.

If you want fine grain then pick a fine grain developer rather than jury rig a developer known to emphasise grain.

But APX100 is fine grained even in Rodinal stand anyway.

luxikon · Sep 25, 2015

I had a closer look at the (new kind of) syringe I used to measure the 3.5ml of Adonal. I mistook the top of the piston for the bottom ...

Thanks for your replies.

APX 100 completely clear after stand dev

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